On 23 May 2017 at 22:19, Patrick Bartek <nemomm...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, 22 May 2017 08:30:15 +0900 Joel Rees <joel.r...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:48 AM, Patrick Bartek <nemomm...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > A while ago, I initiated the "If Linux Is About Choice ..." thread > > > about why there is no choice of inits during an initial install. > > > > > > Since that time, I've tested several systemd-less distros[1] as > > > well as Stretch as replacements for my aging Wheezy system. With > > > Stretch my plan was to see if I could replace systemd as the init > > > without removing it just leaving its components (some or all as > > > necessary) to meet dependencies without it breaking the system > > > > ??? > > Could you be a little more specific? Or should I? > > > > That way there would be no > > > need for third party repos or jumping through hoops to keep a > > > systemd-less working. I figured it would be a somewhat difficult, > > > time consuming process. However, I made a discovery during these > > > tests: The Debian developers had already done it for me. They made > > > switching from systemd as the init to sysvinit or runit easy just > > > by issuing a couple commands. Here's what you do. > > > > I thought that information came out several times in the thread you > > mention having started -- that it was possible to install the base > > system, then disable and remove the main systemd component, just > > leaving some of the pieces that have been picked up as dependencies > > by other packages. > > That scenerio was mentioned and was known by me, but usually used to > prevent systemd from being installed all. But since Debian is now > systemd dependent and doing that will cause problems. You either have > to use third party repos or compile stuff yourself, have local repos, > etc just to get things to work. I ended up with a simplier solution: > Just treat systemd like any other dependency, then no special repos, > compiling, etc. And it worked! And the Stretch developers made it > easy to do which wasn't available with Jessie. Thank you developers. >
I am moved to tears by this..... It is a tribute to human ingenuity, to conflict resolution, to WHO mental health goals and at the same time it represents a subtle troll bamboozling and befuddling spam filter for the list here. My God Bless you all....! MF > > My original thread was on why there is no choice of init at install > time. You have choices on almost everything else. Anyway, most of the > answers were ambiguous, a few acrimonious. No matter. > > > Maybe the discussion of using more advanced techniques to keep from > > ever installing systemd in the first place hid the information about > > the removal approach. > > Too many hoops to jump through to eliminate systemd if major > components (GNOME, udev, udisks2, policykit-1, etc) have it (or parts of > it) as dependencies. Just look at all Devuan had to go through to do > it. > > > If so, it would seem to be worthwhile to have this separate thread, > > as well. > > I don't think it would do any good. Debian has chosen systemd, for > better or worse, and I don't see that changing. Users and > administrators will either adapt or adopt another distro. > > I just hope my little "fix" is useful to someone else. FWIW, I found > without systemd as the init and supervisor, I have about 7.5 MB more > free RAM. > > B > >
