On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 00:29:30 -0500 David Wright <deb...@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed 29 May 2019 at 11:01:58 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote: > > > Is Debian slowly becoming systemd proprietary? It would be a great > > loss to Linux and its philosophy if true. But that looks to be the > > direction Debian is headed. > > > > Once I suggested on this list when systemd first debuted with Jessie > > about choosing an init at install time as an option. It was not well > > received. Many said it couldn't be done or was impractical. My reply > > was, if you can change inits AFTER the install completes, why not > > BEFORE. > > I think it's beneficial to keep the d-i as simple as possible. > Once you've installed the system, all the tools are now available > for changing the init system to whichever one you choose. Adding > that to the d-i just bloats it (for everyone) without any > *essential* benefit to anyone. The install includes lots of choices like print server, server or desktop system, GUI, laptop utilities, etc. that are "bloat-worthy" and can be installed after the main install has completed. I know. I used to do it back in the day. I still do to a certain extent even today. But now those choices are an integral part of the install. So, why not init? Can't even spare a few hundred K? Ridiculous irrantionale. We're talking CD/DVDs not floppies. As far as what constitutes "essential": Shouldn't the user decide that? Or, at least, have a say so? What has happened to the basic philosophy of good business: Satisfy the customer? I'm not against systemd, per se, just against having it forced on me by way of dependencies. I don't think the init should ever be a dependency. Of anything. It's too basic to the system. > > The thread died of apathy shortly thereafter with no resolution. > > Perhaps because you didn't supply any patches for switching to > even one other init system (within the d-i, or as a post-installation > script). Didn't need scripts. Debian already had the ability to switch to sysvinit (probably because so many objected to systemd) by simply installing sysvinit-core. If it's that simple, why not make it part of the install. Yes, you won't be able to use GNOME, but freedom of choice comes with consequences as do all choices. B