On Saturday 13 December 2025 12:35:25 am Andy Smith wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2025 at 02:31:17PM -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: > > On Thursday 11 December 2025 10:24:21 pm The Wanderer wrote: > > > That's certainly one of the major aspects of the reasons I don't care > > > for the systemd ways of doing logging. I recognize that they have their > > > advantages, and that there are good reasons people went to the trouble > > > of implementing them; I just don't think those advantages outweigh the > > > proprietariness-or-something-similar disadvantages, in most cases. > > > > I'd be interested in hearing what those advantages are. > > Do we have to do this? > > This whole thread just seems like less of a genuine query of how to > switch back to rsyslogd (or why not to) and more of an opportunity for > two groups of people to restate their firmly entrenched beliefs and > disingenuously ask for their minds to be changed (because that won't be > possible).
Perhaps I could have been clearer, or maybe I should have started another thread rather than posting in this one... > I used rsyslogd when it was the default in Debian. I found some things > about journald that I don't like so when the default changed I followed > the extremely simple instructions needed to carry on using rsyslogd on > systemd-based Debian. I have never felt the need to incorporate this > preference into my core personality and lead a holy crusade for others > of my kind. I don't care what other people's logs look like. I don't either. > At this point this transition is now years in the past and it baffles me > that this is a topic worth debating in 2025. There's no "debating" as far as I'm concerned. > The default was switched with Debian 12, in June 2023. Debian made it very > simple to stick with a syslogd, but two and a half years later it is still > rustling jimmies, apparently. > > > I keep bumping into things that are major changes away from what I'm used > > to and understand, and the first thing that comes to mind for me is > > "Why?"... Let's toss a couple of other things into the mix. LILO -> Grub. Or that "usrmerge" thingy. I'm sure there are a few others, but those are a couple that come to mind. And then there's how often software for dealing with sound changes. > Given how incredibly simple and well documented it is to switch back to > rsyslogd in Debian it is very hard for me to take this as a genuine > "I don't get on with this, change my mind" request. It's not that. It's more like "I understood this before and now it's changed to something new. And reaching my former level of understanding is going to take some time and some effort. Which is why I am wondering what the reasoning is behind these changes. > If you don't see the value in journald by now — Debian was late to the game > and it's two and a half years old even in Debian — then I don't think you > are ever going to, and that's fine. See above paragraph... > I share your preference, though probably for some different reasons. > > You are honestly just an "apt install rsyslogd" away from going back to > what you know and love and moving on with your life. We don't need to > have this debate! There's no debate going on here as far as I'm concerned. > But, for some reason, a lot of people seem to have very strong opinions > about what other people's logs should look like. I have no openions at all regarding other people's computers and how the deal with things. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
