> This  is  incorrect. We do not make spyware. That is not the purpose
> and  never has been. We make content management software. It can log
> activity  or not. The vast majority of our customers do not maintain
> logs at all.

I'll   trust   you   on   that,   and  apologize  for  the  roundhouse
classification.  Yet  in your "several dozen cases where divorces were
contemplated,  employee  terminations took place, even people who were
sent  back  to  prison"  and  "kids  who have been grounded" examples,
clearly  your  tool was used as spyware. And these are the cases which
you brought under discussion.

> Declude  by  design,  is a TOOL. The user can make it behave any way
> they want to.

I  do  not  agree. No matter how hard you try, you cannot make Declude
alone  distinguish  between  unsolicited porn and solicited porn. Yes,
you can *not care* about which is which, but you cannot tell for sure.

> Who said they had to be suspected spam?

Who  said?  Dan said! His very concern is that held spam is being used
to  incriminate  a  user.  Our  question is how/why/whether Declude is
being used as an agent in his dismissal.

> We have received hundreds on inquiries about blocking adult material
> whether it is spam or not.

"Whether  it  is  spam  or  not"  is  not  a reasonable foundation for
employee termination, which is, again, the topic under discussion--not
the ways and means of blocking porn in general.

> This  is  a  hot  segment  of the market right now. A lot of spam is
> tolerated. Porn is not.

Porn  pix,  movies,  and  e-mail  can  each  create grounds for sexual
harrassment   lawsuits,   whether   viewed/downloaded   purposely   or
accidentally,  so  of  course  this  market remains hot. Incoming porn
e-mail does not itself constitute purpose. I believe the best medicine
for  avoiding  both  employee  time-wasting and a hostile workplace is
preventative  technology,  as  CyberSitter  or other content filtering
tools  provide,  combined with people management, including both frank
discussion  of  company  policies  and  the creation of a stress-aware
workplace  in  which people make human contact, take breaks, start new
projects,  whatever, instead of relying on their prurient interests to
get them through the day.

Suddenly  dismissing  an  employee  to  deflect  attention  from  your
previous  lack  of filtering and person-to-person management skills is
disingenuous;  termination  without warning may itself be questionable
in court.

> What they may be evidence of is violation of company policies.

Information that "may or may not" be evidentiary...is not.

> They  may be unsolicited, may be not. Doesn't matter whether the guy
> has  a porn habit or not. If he is receiving inappropriate material,
> and  if  the  employer  has  good  reason  that  some  of  it is not
> unsolicited as you claim it all must be...

An  employee  at  will  can be fired without cause, which is often the
safe  way  out  that  employers  take.  But if an employer goes on the
record  as saying that a termination occured because of a violation of
a  company  policy,  this claim must be backed not with suspicion, but
with  legally  valid  evidence.  In  this  case,  like  I said, if the
employer's  "good  reason"  comes  from hard monitoring and red-handed
evidence,  then  that  evidence  is  all  you need; incoming e-mail is
essentially a red herring.

> the  employer  is  perfectly within his rights, and possibility even
> obligated to fire the guy.

The  employer  is only within his rights if his evidence is solid, and
trapped spam is not solid. Fire away, and then get ready to settle the
lawsuit.

The  question remains: are they actually going to cite porn spam, even
a  seeming  "ton,"  as  evidence  in court, or have they followed this
guy's   tracks  enough  elsewhere  to  not  worry  about  that  easily
challenged  tactic?  Hey, maybe this guy was really a baddie. We don't
know.  I  do  know that there are plenty of "protected" executives who
surf  porn  all  day  and  don't get canned, while people lower on the
totem  pole  at  the  same  companies  can  get  warned  for  a single
infraction.   I've  personally  known  an  employee  fired  for  being
overweight  (framed  as a "productivity issue": lawsuit settled out of
court)  and  one  for  not  putting  her hair in a ponytail (framed as
insubordination,  though  without  any company policy whatsoever: also
settled  out of court). After much wrangling, I convinced a client not
to terminate the Internet access of an employee who demonstrated to me
that  an  otherwise  legit CAD/CAM tutorial site was supporting itself
through  soft-core popup ads (think auto mechanics' calendars). So I'm
likely  to  keep  my  mind  open  to  the  employer's  need  to have a
defensible case.

-Sandy


------------------------------------
Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist
Broadleaf Systems, a division of
Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc.
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------------

---
[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)]

---
This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list.  To
unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and
type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail".  The archives can be found
at http://www.mail-archive.com.

Reply via email to