Vis Studio comes with Rational Rose.
-----Original Message-----
From: Max Renshaw-Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Multiple recipients of list DELphi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, 21 September 1999 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: [DUG]: ANN: Delphi 5 shipping in NZ
Hi Tony,
Pretty much my point exactly, it's a business decision!
If I can be 10% more productive then it's worth the effort - D4, as others
have confirmed, is a far more productive environment than D3, once you get
to know it - so the bottom line, for me, is that I can earn the same $ _and_
spend more time with my kids. D5 shows similar promise but, as you say, you
need to work with a tool for a while to appreciate it's benefits.
I think 30 day trials would help, as would walk-throughs of new features. MS
are superb at giving you just enough for free to hook you into a product.
Ironically though, tools that are immediately accessible, and look good on
trial, don't always have the depth later.
For me the parallel versioning stuff, if it works as advertised, will
justify D5 as the overhead of reconciling farmed-out work into base-code is
a serious pain. Other stuff similarly. But then that's my needs.
I'd like to see Borland move down the path of enabling good development
process, as well as technology. The tracks at BorCon this year suggest this
may be in their thinking.
Interestingly MS have bought Visio, which gives then a serious
data-modelling tool, as well as UML stuff, though they are supposedly
keeping Visio as a subsidiary - like Lotus at IBM - hmmmm.
Max
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Tony Blomfield
Sent: Tuesday, 21 September 1999 08:19
To: Multiple recipients of list DELphi
Subject: Re: [DUG]: ANN: Delphi 5 shipping in NZ
Ah Max, but in my position, would you feel so compelled to spend
3.5K only one year later to go from D4 to D5.?
Really, I think its up to Borland to try and sell me on this one.
I just dont see the pay back is there.
Is Corba fully implemented in D4? Or do we have to buy extra stuff to do the
middle layer? I mean, can we do the whole Corba thing with one product now?
or must we still use JBuilder.
Is there a reliable report tool included or is it still QR.
Because if thats the case, then you really need to tack on another 1K on to
your thinking for a decent report tool.
Will all of my components need conversion yet again? You have to put a value
on that as well. Allow say 1K for that, and suddenly the upgrade cost is
over 4K.
Because I operate in a small group most of the time, the versioning tool is
not an attractor.
It would be nice to have a play for a month before spending that sort of
$. The major bugs didn't show in D4 until much later when I had a project
with 350+ forms in it. How do I know that D4 doesn't suffer from the same
rubbish? What guarantee is there of quality this time round. These things
need to be talked about.
Yes I guesse there are a lot of companies that will just blindly upgrade,
but its a significant cost to me, and I am not going to do it until some
effort is made to answer these questions and others.
I cant help comparing it with the smooth machine from MS$ that makes every
effort to keep me up to date with Vis Studio.
I know there are others who feel like me, so how about a little promo effort
from B.
Cheers,
Tony.
Tony.
-----Original Message-----
From: Max Renshaw-Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Multiple recipients of list DELphi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, 20 September 1999 8:48 AM
Subject: RE: [DUG]: ANN: Delphi 5 shipping in NZ
We seem to be in the grip of the same catharsis as last year...
Like D4, imho, the productivity stuff is the major move. The versioning tool
looks good (including to-do lists) will help team productivity - as well as
the ADO stuff will make my life easier. Just the lack of code navigation
capabilities in D3 frustrate me on the occasions I have to work with it. A
lot of the flakey stuff, from D4, has been debugged - there's more debugging
stuff, like "attach to process". I haven't played with the com-server stuff
but driving ms-office should be easier too. Likewise the data-module
designer looks useful, it's one of the areas where not everyone seems to
find good design easy.
Personally I think D3 - D5 is a compelling upgrade, with the intermediate
steps less so. Borland position Delphi as a Rapid Development tool, read
Steve McConnell's sequel to Code Complete for a good definition, and, again
imho, that's what each subsequent release has delivered on.
I've been through the same costing exercise, that I posted to the list 12
months ago when the same things were being said about D4, and the numbers
are still the same. If what you want is a productivity tool with good
technology, ie time-to-market etc, then Delphi has a lot to offer. If what
you want is technology only - then I agree - there are other more
cost-effective options.
The bottom line is that I can make more $ with D5, than it costs me, so the
cost-benefit equation works out. If it didn't I'd just not buy it.
Max
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Phil Scadden
Sent: Thursday, 16 September 1999 08:52
To: Multiple recipients of list DELphi
Subject: Re: [DUG]: ANN: Delphi 5 shipping in NZ
> Just someone mentoned adjusted prices and I wondered if perhaps the
> somewhat
> unrealistic 3.5K Upgrade price for some thing that apperntly has little
new
> to offer, but supposedly addresses the bugs in D4. Considering that D4 is
> only one year old, its one hell of a price!
>
> Guesse I'l sit this one out.
We decided to sit on 3 and wait for 5 because of just such outrageous prices
for D4.
After hearing of D4's problems, I am glad we did. Given D3 stability, its
still hard to
work up a business case for D5 C/S. The things in D3 C/S that made it sound
attractive turned out to be mostly 3rd party stuff that worked badly. The
exception
being SQL-link. With so many BDE alternatives for native access, that is no
longer an issue. I think we have to look hard now at just D5 professional
with
add-ons for specific functionality that I need.
same.
----------------------------------------------------------
Phil Scadden, Institute of Geological and Nuclear Sciences
PO Box 30368, Lower Hutt, New Zealand
Ph +64 4 5704821, fax +64 4 5704603
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Website: http://www.delphi.org.nz
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New Zealand Delphi Users group - Delphi List - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: http://www.delphi.org.nz
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