As I understand many of the Android applications are written in a Google
version of Java – they wrote their own clean room version of the Java Virtual
Machine called Dalvik which was optimised for low power consumption and memory
use (register based). But standard Java with the Android libraries can be
compiled to run on Android.
The examples on the DelphiDroid project used C# and VS to read the DFM and
create much (but not all of the program) as Java code.
I would guess a Delphi cross compiler is likely to aim at whatever VM and
libraries runs commonly on Android. I would imagine that loss of native code
is a disadvantage, but portability over lots of processors and handsets would
be easier, and that the Dalvik virtual machine is likely very well optimised
for Android anyway so it would be a shrewd way to do it. Also compiling or
converting Delphi to Java code is likely to be not too difficult a job either.
As a further reason for not going to native code, the whole original reason
that Unix and linux were able to run on so much hardware was that as much of
the OS as possible was not written in machine code – its all in C and libraries
and has a huge number of API ‘s for C and other languages. I think pretty
much only parts of device drivers have to be in machine code, and that a C
compiler has to be available for a new processor. This is another reason (on
top of being free and tuned and debugged for 40 years) that the unix/linux
kernel became universally available on everything from phones to
supercomputers. Android Dalvik applications run no doubt as a layer on the
linux kernel calling the standard Unix/linux system calls so there is likely
not much effort in making a Dalvik Virtual Machine for new phone architectures
either.
As a aside - Not using the standard Java Virtual Machine has caused a law suit
between Oracle and Google on the grounds that if they don’t use the JVM from
Sun/Oracle they are violating the terms of use. However Java is supposed to
be open sourced so most observers think that Oracle is simply trying to get
some revenue from Android – they are hoping Google will settle with damages in
order to not hold up Android. Typical behaviour apparently from Larry Ellison
who’s motto is “not only does Oracle have to win, everyone else has to lose”
Most commentators think they have as much of a case as SCO suing Novell over
ownership of parts of linux, or Microsoft suing linux users over supposed and
unspecified intellectual property thefts – ie the chance of a snowball in a
very hot place, and that Google did carefully write their Dalvik as a clean
room version – ie they didn’t use JVM code. Anyway Google shrewdly is not
making any money from selling Android anyway – it gives it away – it makes ifs
money from the services running on Android.
It would be similar to Embarcadero suing the Free Pascal project which has a
Delphi compatible compiler if some large firm had started using that for
commercial applications rather than buying the Delphi compiler. Not worth
suing an open source, but worth suing the firm using it for a commercial
product in the spirit of all good patent trolls. Or they might sue the Free
Pascal project if they had got first to a 64-bit compiler or a cross to iPhone
or Android compiler as blocking opportunities for their commercial products.
Most even loyal Delphi programmers would likely say “serves them
(Embarcadero/Borland) right for not getting there first that open source stole
their thunder”. Wait - Hold on! - I think that so far Free Pascal is in
fact ahead of Embarcadero in those areas...
John
Well, that’s exactly my point... “native” means compiled to machine code, in
which case you need to say code for *which* machine...
For a more concrete example: The Delphi compiler does not target the “IBM PC”
– it targets Intel x86.
It also targets Windows on x86, but let us imagine that Windows was still NT
and that NT still supported ALPHA hardware. Delphi “targets” Windows, but it
does not produce ALPHA executables since it only targets x86.
To say that Delphi targets Windows is not sufficient – you have to say “Windows
x86”.
So when you say “targets Android”, this doesn’t appear to be sufficient
information to be a reliable indication of any meaningful, intent, just highly
speculative spit-balling (“Ya know, with this new compiler architecture we (or
“they”) could support Android...”).
I would be interested to know where you heard the speculation... the source can
be significant in ascertaining the reliability of some messages... J
From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Alister Christie
Sent: Tuesday, 30 November 2010 17:10
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
Subject: Re: [DUG] DelphiDroid
>From what I heard it will be native - although all I've heard are rumors -
>certainly no statement of intent.
Alister ChristieComputers for PeoplePh: 04 471 1849 Fax: 04 471
1266http://www.salespartner.co.nzPO Box 13085JohnsonvilleWellington
On 29/11/2010 4:19 p.m., Jolyon Smith wrote:
Is that Android 1.5? 1.6? 2.1? 2.2? Or will it be 3.0?
Apart from that, isn’t a “target” for a compiler a bit more than just an
OS/platform/framework ... ?
If Delphi is to “target” Android then it must target the CPU architectures that
Android itself runs on (with iPhone the distinction is blurred since only one
phone hardware platform runs the OS – iPhone the OS is iPhone the hardware, to
intents and purposes).
Android might be running on (currently) ARM-Cortex A7, A8, or A9 (as far as I
can tell – I am not an Android owner or otherwise particularly interested in
Android, so this is based on a few mins with my learned friend, Mr Google J)
From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Alister Christie
Sent: Tuesday, 30 November 2010 14:11
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
Subject: Re: [DUG] DelphiDroid
My understanding is that both Android and iPhone are being actively
experimented with as targets for the compiler. We'll probably hear more once
we have OS/X, Win64 and Linux support, which I suspect that it would be at last
2 years away
Alister ChristieComputers for PeoplePh: 04 471 1849 Fax: 04 471
1266http://www.salespartner.co.nzPO Box 13085JohnsonvilleWellington
On 29/11/2010 1:40 p.m., David Brennan wrote:
I think Jolyon is right.
The difference between a proof of concept (which is basically what the guy has
now) and a robust tool which handles the majority of Delphi features and
libraries is enormous. Several orders of magnitude sounds about right to me
(meaning 100-1000 times more difficult, or even more).
I agree with the general principle though that being able to build for Android
(and/or iPhone and others) would be great. However I think the only way it
could really be done in a decent way is by Embarcadero continuing to extend the
back end compiler to support more and more target platforms. They have made a
few references in recent times which suggest they hope to do this but only time
will tell.
Cheers,
David.
From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Jeremy Coulter
Sent: Monday, 29 November 2010 1:23 p.m.
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
Subject: Re: [DUG] Company closing
you should download it and make it do more then :-)
jeremy
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Jolyon Smith <jsm...@deltics.co.nz> wrote:
Is it a compiler? Technically I mean - I'd call it a translator. :)
I wonder how far it can go though, beyond the simple examples I mean.
Translating a push button and a call to ShowMessage() is one thing. Being
able to translate a complex application with all the libraries that Android
must support strikes me as a number of orders of magnitude more complex.
-----Original Message-----
From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Alister Christie
Sent: Monday, 29 November 2010 12:39
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
Subject: Re: [DUG] Company closing
Interestingly the compiler is written in C#
Alister Christie
Computers for People
Ph: 04 471 1849 Fax: 04 471 1266
http://www.salespartner.co.nz
PO Box 13085
Johnsonville
Wellington
On 29/11/2010 12:08 p.m., John Bird wrote:
>
?http://lenniedevilliers.blogspot.com/2010/09/delphi-for-android-sneak-previ
ew.html
>
> Just checked out the DelphiDroid - not sure what state its at but simple
> examples are at least working - see a sneak peek video at the above
address.
> Says been tested with "Delphi 6.0, 7.0, 2005, 2006 and 2010."
>
> This is exactly the sort of tools we need - why does Embarcadero not jump
> onto this asap???
>
>
> John
>
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