At a mature stage in which Derby is, the best and cheapest option would be to update the website (whatever that really means) and make sure the build works and hence drop a new release once every N years - even if only 1 thing is changed - might just be documentation. Not sure what steps there are involved to create a release. For sure keep it in SVN at this late stage. As Rick states the current repository is "10.18.0.0" which could be good for a long time to come. I only had the need to build Derby once when I needed to check my bug fix for the TriggerDescriptor lazy initialization and lucky Bryan was so nice to check the diff file and run the test suite that all works. (10.12.1.1). Maybe I am just getting sentimental, I will for sure keep using it and hope I never run into a showstopper which I cannot fix myself.
On Thu, Sep 25, 2025 at 8:24 AM Clebert Suconic <[email protected]> wrote: > as to what ActiveMQ wants, I tried to get a consensus from people > yesterday... and everybody I talked would be okay with moving to > something else. > > from what I saw, keeping Derby alive would require some work done... > the website is old, it sill using SVN (would be nice to use github, so > people can send pull requests and maintain it). > > If you (Rich) and Bryan, or anyone else invovled don't have time to > devote to that, and nobody to cover for it, we should probably look > into replacing it. > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2025 at 7:46 PM Rick Hillegas <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Bryan and I are the last of the Derby developers. However, we no longer > > fix bugs. Would ActiveMQ be comfortable if the Derby user list continued > > to function and users could still log bugs via JIRA even though the > > developer list shut down, distributions disappeared from the Derby > > download tab, and it was understood that bugs would not be fixed? I > > would be happy to continue to answer the occasional question on the user > > list. > > > > On 9/24/25 4:13 PM, Rick Hillegas wrote: > > > Those are all fine alternatives. > > > > > > I suspect that if Derby worked well as a testbed for the last decade, > > > it will continue to work well for the next decade, even without an > > > active community behind it. > > > > > > On 9/24/25 2:44 PM, Clebert Suconic wrote: > > >> so, I spoke to folks on our slack channel for ActiveMQ. > > >> > > >> We use it for our testsute, and never in production... We can easily > > >> replace it by either dockerized databases (e.g Mysql or Oracle), or > > >> use HSQL / H2. > > >> > > >> We would be happy to use it if there's still a community around it, > > >> but if there's not enough community (devs) to keep the project going, > > >> we couldn't find anyone at ActiveMQ willing to maintain it. > > >> > > >> > > >> We will just watch this space and decide based on the outcome here. > > >> > > >> On Wed, Sep 24, 2025 at 3:05 PM Clebert Suconic > > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>> I just opened a discussion on ActiveMQ dev list. I would -1 on > > >>> retiring it. I'm not active on this co0debase, and I wonder what > would > > >>> be required to keep it alive? > > >>> > > >>> I hope some other members from the ActiveMQ community could jump on > > >>> this discussion as well. > > >>> > > >>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2025 at 3:01 PM Clebert Suconic > > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>> I still use Derby as part of ActiveMQ Artemis, and also ActiveMQ > > >>>> class, for our tests. > > >>>> > > >>>> As part of our testsuite, I need to validate our basic SQL > interfaces > > >>>> would work as required.. it has been a good tool for our testsuite. > > >>>> > > >>>> If you intend to retire Derby I wonder what I would use into our > > >>>> testsuite validation though? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2025 at 2:55 PM Jerry Lampi <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>> We use Derby daily. Our customers use Derby daily. > > >>>>> Our sentiments precisely match Roy Minet's: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> "Retiring Derby" sounds unnecessarily scary. What it means is > > >>>>> ending further development and support, but Derby will continue to > > >>>>> be alive, well, and available. Is that correct? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I have used Derby for years and have yet to have any problems with > > >>>>> it. I employ a good range of SQL capabilities, but try to avoid > > >>>>> (what I would consider) excessive complexity. Derby is good and > > >>>>> valuable software and I thank you profusely for it! > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I'm about five years behind (using 10.14.2.0), but have not so far > > >>>>> been motivated to move to a latter version (if it ain't broke, > > >>>>> don't fix it). Of course, there are alternatives to Derby as well, > > >>>>> but I have not so far seen any reason to change. What I am most > > >>>>> interested in is your advice for someone in my situation. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Stick with 10.14.2.0. It's possible that some change in a latter > > >>>>> version could cause a problem. > > >>>>> Move to (the apparently final version) 10.17.1.0 and "standardize" > > >>>>> on that. There are some enhancements and bug fixes in there that I > > >>>>> may encounter the need for in the future. > > >>>>> Move to one of the other embeddable RDBMS. (Which would you > > >>>>> recommend?) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> We are eternally grateful to Rick, Bryan, and the Derby community. > > >>>>> It's a wonderful piece of software. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Jerry Lampi > > >>>>> > > >>>>> ________________________________ > > >>>>> From: Rick Hillegas <[email protected]> > > >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2025 12:26 PM > > >>>>> To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Derby > > >>>>> Discussion <[email protected]> > > >>>>> Subject: [DISCUSS] Retiring Derby > > >>>>> > > >>>>> It has been almost two years since the Derby sub-project published > > >>>>> a new > > >>>>> version. I myself have no interest in managing another Derby > release. > > >>>>> Bryan is the only other active Derby committer. Bugs are reported > > >>>>> occasionally but they are never fixed. Mailing-list activity > consists > > >>>>> almost entirely of spam rejects. No-one has volunteered to refresh > > >>>>> the > > >>>>> Derby website with the new Apache logo. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I think that the time has come to retire Derby. As I understand > > >>>>> it, this > > >>>>> means putting Derby into a read-only state: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> o The Derby repository would become read-only. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> o Distributions would be removed from the Download tab. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> o The developer and user lists would be closed down. Mailing list > > >>>>> archives would still be browsable. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> o A prominent banner would be added to the Derby website landing > > >>>>> page, > > >>>>> stating that Derby was now retired and read-only. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> o The Derby website, JIRA, and wiki would be placed in read-only > > >>>>> mode. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Before calling a retirement vote, I would like to give the > > >>>>> developer and > > >>>>> user communities an opportunity to discuss this change. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> What are your thoughts? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -Rick > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -- > > >>>> Clebert Suconic > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Clebert Suconic > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Clebert Suconic >
