Murray Cumming wrote: > [snip] > >> A fight because bullsh*t is a cancer. For another example check this >> "review" that puts gtkmm not only above other wrappers but almost on one >> level with GTK+ itself: >> http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/928 >> >> This article is a direct result of gtkmm presentation that tries to >> expose that wrapper as a savior by lowering GTK+. This cancer is being >> spread for years and the campaign has a deafening success, I myself was >> hypnotized once. >> > [snip] > > This is so vague that it's difficult to respond. I assume that you object > to gtkmm developers suggesting that people use gtkmm instead of GTK+ to > developer applications. So I'll note that > - The GTK+ developers recommend that people use language bindings to > develop applications. They say it's easier. > - gtkmm is meant for people who like C++. It's obviously better than GTK+ > for C++ coders. > So I'm not sure what the charges against me are. > > To your other points: People (me included) don't seem to understand what > you are suggesting or the implications of it, and are offended by their > understanding so far. When that happens it's best to calmly think again > about how you are presenting it. If people still don't agree with you then > that's life. We all have different opinions and we can't all fight about > them. Some people call that politics, but it's just getting things done. > > Murray Cumming > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.murrayc.com > www.openismus.com > > > Murray, I was thinking once that you present gtkmm as something superior to GTK+ on purpose, but recently I changed my opinion. Your desire to expose gtkmm in the most advantageous fashion is understandable. But how can you explain this phrase from gtkmm website: "gtkmm is a GUI toolkit and nothing more, and it strives to be the best C++ GUI toolkit"? There are also strange things in gtkmm FAQ, for example "why use gtkmm instead of GTK+" - note the word "instead". If that all was said unconsciously, may be it's time to make gtkmm more loyal to GTK+? My negative attitude towards gtkmm was increased also after somebody started a (paid?) google ad campaign promoting a gtkmm tutorial chapter about Glade.
Regarding my proposals... I said that I want to retire from free software (I have a different mentality), so I hope nobody could accuse me that I seek selfish gains here. I gathered some knowledge during development of Gideon and I wanted to share it with the Gnome community. Oliver Stone said recently that he criticizes America because he loves it. My points are sharp, here is a full list of what I wanted to say (just to *say* and may be discuss, not to push): 1. State openly that gtkmm website contains subtle (unintentional?) lies. (This was the most important for me personally.) 2. Propose a position of a Moderator. This could automatically increase signal/noise ratio of mailing lists; debates won't be endless; people would afraid to lie; less politics and more activity; Gnome will be more comfortable for people from Eastern Europe and Asia (some if not all eastern cultures are not compatible with meritocracy!) 3. Show the benefits of a split of Gnome and GTK+: this eliminates technology and ideology mixture, so both projects could improve faster since they have different goals. 4. Propose Gnome certification (originally I was thinking about it as a replacement to the HIG, but I was shown that the HIG is needed, so it is a complement now). 5. Formulate the Gideon Principle and propose it as a cornerstone for Gnome HIG and certification. 6. Discuss the possibility of contribution of Gideon to Gnome since Gnome hosts GTK+. (I admit that I sounded frivolous on the "Contribution" thread, but that's because I was not sure that such contribution could happen and is fully sensible.) 7. Propose to narrow Gnome by ideology (this is a short formulation of an implementation style - not a HIG, but something like a motto: "Simple interface, great functionality, coherent behavior") (In fact that's my motto that I use when I develop GUI applications. It is a user-understandable reformulation of the Gideon Principle) Hmm... may be something else I can't recall now. Some of these points raised *after* I made my first post here. _______________________________________________ desktop-devel-list mailing list [email protected] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
