Okay, so I think that implies: (a) CLI versions tied to very specific platform versions ==> to switch platform versions you must switching CLI versions ==> switching one platform version switches all platform versions. - Andrew pointed out this is currently the case, and is a problem that leads to users not updating CLI as often as they otherwise would - I think this basically implies platforms cannot be independently versioned (sure the semver numbers may differ, but for all practical purposes, you would use platforms from the same release date, based on CLI version).
(b) Require apps to depend on specific CLI version, assuming you mean with a local package.json: - Now all cordova projects must be node projects, which they currently are not. - Currently the cordova-cli creates apps, so we have a globally installed bootstrapping cordova-cli, and a locally installed specific version cordova-cli, a-la grunt/gulp. (this idea was thrown around before). - Quite a dramatic change for cordova workflow, surely larger than the current proposal. - Or we drop cordova-cli entirely and just publish grunt/gulp plugins to "add cordova" to your existing web app. Thats an even more radical departure and significant work. -Michal On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Brian LeRoux <[email protected]> wrote: > No, at least not how I'd see it done. > > 1.) Updating is important. Staying current: encouraged. > 2.) I'd make my App depend on a specific CLI version. I'd call into that > using npm scripts. > > > > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Michal Mocny <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Thinking it through, if cordova platforms are deps of the CLI, to > install a > > specific version you wouldn't just do: > > > npm install -g [email protected] > > > > you would actually need to: > > > cd $(npm config get prefix)/lib/node_modules/cordova > > > npm install --save [email protected] > > > > ..and then remember to do that again whenever you `npm update -g` > > ..and its harder to have multiple platform versions for different > projects > > (questionable if this is useful for devs outside of cordova contributors, > > but may be useful at last test upgrades when we ship new platform > > versions). > > > > -Michal > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Brian LeRoux <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > NIH: not invented here > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Andrew Grieve <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Brian LeRoux <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Actually that was >0 LOC which is a fine argument if you ask me. > And > > we > > > > > both know there is much more to it than just that. lazy_load…for > > > example. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you're concerned about code, there is a tonne of much > lower-hanging > > > > fruit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bundling platforms is bundling a dep that we require to operate. We > > do > > > > not > > > > > require plugins to operate. You cannot build a project without > > having a > > > > > platform and, indeed, you probably want more than one. > > > > > > > > > I don't require blackberry to create an iOS project. But I do require > > > some > > > > plugins. We use "npm cache add" to download plugins, I don't see how > > > > platforms would not work just as easily. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agree that we need discreet versioning: hence why I'm advocating we > > use > > > > > well understood, maintained, and effectively standard system for > > doing > > > > > this. We do not need NIH dependencies that is what package.json is > > for! > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what NIH dependencies are. Googling suggests you're > > talking > > > > about drugs... > > > > > > > > We *are* using npm for downloading, we're just not making the user > type > > > it > > > > directly. > > > > > > > > Mark's approach also avoids the "what-if" cases where what's in your > > > > node_modules might not match what's in your platforms/ > > > > > > > > Does what Mark has implemented not address a use-case of yours? Or > are > > we > > > > going back & forth over personal preference? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Andrew Grieve < > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Brian LeRoux <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew, you misunderstand. I am talking about bundling > platforms > > > > > directly > > > > > > > as dependencies of the CLI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A trivial example: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CLI > > > > > > > '-ios > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wherein, CLI declares the precise version of the platform it > > uses. > > > We > > > > > > could > > > > > > > wildcard. I don't know that we want or need to do that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would have identical semantics to today except the download > > > > penalty > > > > > > > happens up front. (We can remove lazy_load logic. We don't have > > to > > > > > > maintain > > > > > > > our own dependency manifests and caches. LESS code: good > thing.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me paste the code for doing our own caching for you: > > > > > > > > > > > > cordova_npm: function lazy_load_npm(platform) { > > > > > > if (!(platform in platforms)) { > > > > > > return Q.reject(new Error('Cordova library "' + > > platform > > > + > > > > '" > > > > > > not recognized.')); > > > > > > } > > > > > > var pkg = 'cordova-' + platform + '@' + > > > > > > platforms[platform].version; > > > > > > return Q.nfcall( npm.load, {cache: > > > path.join(util.libDirectory, > > > > > > 'npm_cache') }) > > > > > > .then(function() { > > > > > > return Q.ninvoke(npm.commands, 'cache', ['add', > pkg]); > > > > > > }).then(function(info) { > > > > > > var pkgDir = path.resolve(npm.cache, info.name, > > > > > info.version, > > > > > > 'package'); > > > > > > return pkgDir; > > > > > > }); > > > > > > }, > > > > > > > > > > > > There's really no "amount of code" argument here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding platforms at a specific version would mean having a > > specific > > > > > > version > > > > > > > of the CLI. Yes: this is way better! Explicit dependencies is > the > > > > best > > > > > > way > > > > > > > to work w/ the small modules thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bundling platforms with CLI would be like bundling all of the > > plugins > > > > > with > > > > > > CLI, or like bundling every npm module with npm. > > > > > > > > > > > > Devs need to be able to try out platforms at different versions. > We > > > > > should > > > > > > not do anything that keeps users clinging to old versions of CLI > > > (e.g. > > > > > they > > > > > > do this now because they don't want to update to new platforms) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Michal Mocny < > > [email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 10:14 PM, Andrew Grieve < > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's both flows as I understand them: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Direct NPM flow: > > > > > > > > > # Downloads platform source into node_modules > > > > > > > > > npm install [email protected] --save > > > > > > > > > # Runs the create script and installs plugins to create > > > > > platforms/ios > > > > > > > > > cordova platform add ios --path=node_modules/cordova-ios > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be fair, I think with Brian's suggestion, platform add FOO > > > would > > > > > by > > > > > > > > default look in node_modules so you wouldn't be explicit > about > > > it, > > > > > and > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > the default cordova project package.json would depend on all > > the > > > > > latest > > > > > > > > versions of each platform, so the flows would actually be: > > > > > > > > > cordova create Foo && cd Foo > > > > > > > > > npm install > > > > > > > > > npm install [email protected] --save > > > > > > > > > cordova platform add android > > > > > > > > > cordova platform add ios > > > > > > > > > # crazy idea? use npm post-install hooks to auto-run > > > > create/upgrade > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > you usually don't need above two lines? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compared to: > > > > > > > > > cordova create Foo && cd Foo > > > > > > > > > cordova platform add android > > > > > > > > > cordova platform add [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think #2 is enough better that its not worth changing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cordova-to-npm flow (as Mark's implemented): > > > > > > > > > # Runs "npm cache add cordova-ios", then runs create script > > > from > > > > > > > > > ~/cache/cordova-ios/bin/create > > > > > > > > > cordova platform add [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In both flows: we use npm to do all of the heavy lifting > > > > > > > > > - In both flows: the npm module is cached in your home > > > directory > > > > > > > > > - In both flows?: we store the plugins & platforms > explicitly > > > > > within > > > > > > > > > config.xml (Gorkem's added this) > > > > > > > > > - In flow #1, we have a package.json & a node_modules, in > #2 > > we > > > > > > don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why put the onus on the user to fetch the platform source > > when > > > > it's > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > easy > > > > > > > > > as running "npm cache add" under-the-hood? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In regards to the idea of using require() on platform > scripts > > > > > instead > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > subshelling: I think this is tangental to the debate of how > > to > > > > > fetch > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > platform. > > > > > > > > > In regards to using "npm install" directly when using the > > > plugman > > > > > > > > workflow: > > > > > > > > > Sounds good to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Brian LeRoux <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eventually, yes. (Sort of how Grunt works now.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:52 PM, Terence M. Bandoian < > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can multiple versions of a platform be installed > > > > side-by-side? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Terence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/2/2014 3:04 PM, Michal Mocny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >From original email: "Ideal future CLI uses platforms > > > just > > > > > like > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > >> deps. > > > > > > > > > > >> We lose lazy loading but network and disk is cheap so > it > > > > > wasn't > > > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > >> important anyhow." > > > > > > > > > > >> Made me think Brian is proposing adding platforms to > cli > > > > > > > > package.json > > > > > > > > > > >> dependencies, and you would have a single global > install > > > > > > > > > > >> cordova-platforms. > > > > > > > > > > >> Then you can override the version with an explicit > > > install > > > > > as > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > >> mentions > > > > > > > > > > >> "npm i [email protected]". > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I think that workflow could work, and has > a > > > few > > > > > > > > benefits, > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > >> I'm not sure that option compares well to the > > alternative > > > of > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > lazy > > > > > > > > > > >> loading using npm cache add as Mark has already > > > implemented > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > experiment > > > > > > > > > > >> (anyone interested in this topic should take a look at > > > that > > > > > > > patch). > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> The steps Brian & Ian outline about how to package > > > platforms > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > release > > > > > > > > > > >> to > > > > > > > > > > >> npm are possibly an improvement over the old-style > > > > > > > platform-centric > > > > > > > > > > >> workflow. Instead of downloading a tarball and > running > > a > > > > > create > > > > > > > > > script, > > > > > > > > > > >> you npm install and run a create() function, and that > > can > > > > more > > > > > > > > easily > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > >> bundled into other build scripts/boilerplate. For CLI > > > > > workflow, > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > >> that there is any real difference (as Jesse says). > One > > > > note, > > > > > > > > though: > > > > > > > > > > >> cordova-* platforms are templates for projects, so > the > > > > > > > > package.json > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > > > > > >> npm package itself shouldn't end up inside projects > that > > > are > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > >> it. I think. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> -Michal > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Ian Clelland < > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> There seems to be some confusion -- I think people > are > > > > > talking > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > >>> different things here, but perhaps it's just me ;) > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> I thought that Brian's original suggestion was about > > > being > > > > > able > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > host > > > > > > > > > > >>> Cordova platforms directly on NPM. That's why each > one > > > > would > > > > > > > > require > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > >>> package.json. (which would probably end up in > > > > > > > > > > >>> <project>/platforms/<platform> in a project, but > that's > > > not > > > > > the > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > >>> it). > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> As an NPM project, we then would have the opportunity > > > > (though > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >>> obligation) to make all of the supporting scripts for > > > each > > > > > > > platform > > > > > > > > > > >>> (create, build, run, etc) part of the node module, > for > > a > > > > > > uniform > > > > > > > > > > >>> interface > > > > > > > > > > >>> that doesn't require going through the command line. > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> It's not about making platforms into CLI dependencies > > > (any > > > > > more > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > >>> plugins are CLI dependencies right now), or about > > making > > > a > > > > > > > > > > cordova-based > > > > > > > > > > >>> project into a node package. > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> If that's right, then I support that -- I'd like the > > > > > platforms > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > >>> installable through npm, and to be versioned > > separately, > > > > > > > > installable > > > > > > > > > > >>> separately, and scriptable without having to spawn > > > > subshells. > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> And if I have it completely wrong, then let me know > -- > > > I'll > > > > > > just > > > > > > > go > > > > > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > > > >>> to > > > > > > > > > > >>> fixing File bugs ;) > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 3:29 PM, Andrew Grieve < > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> Not sure what your question is. > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Brian LeRoux < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> *ahem > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 11:20 AM, Brian LeRoux < > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> npm i [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Right? > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> On May 27, 2014 11:06 PM, "Andrew Grieve" < > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Lazy loading is what will give us the ability to > > > support > > > > > > > multiple > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> versions > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> of platforms. > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> If we don't support users choosing the version of > > the > > > > > > > platform > > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> want, > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> then they will resist updating their version of > CLI > > > > (like > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> right > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> now). > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I'm very keen to allow users to chose their > > platform > > > > > > > versions, > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> as > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> they > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> are able to choose their plugin versions. > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Mark Koudritsky > < > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> +1 > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Steve published (some of?) the platforms on npm > as > > > > part > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> latest > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> release. > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://www.npmjs.org/package/cordova-android > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://www.npmjs.org/package/cordova-ios > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> CLI already require()s npm for downloading > plugins > > > > from > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> registry. > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Extending this to platforms is on my todo list for > > > > > this\next > > > > > > > > week. > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> The "lazy" part of the loading was about > caching, > > so > > > > we > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> it > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> since > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> npm does its own caching. > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Parashuram > > > Narasimhan > > > > > (MS > > > > > > > > OPEN > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> TECH) > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> < > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> +1. This will also be a step towards releasing > > > > > platforms > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> independently. > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Will the CLI have a semver like dependency on > the > > > > > platform > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> specified > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> somewhere ? Would the cli have to require('npm') > and > > do > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> install? > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto: > > > > > > > [email protected]] > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Behalf > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Of > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Brian LeRoux > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 2:20 PM > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Subject: adding platforms to npm for dependency > > > > sanity > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> We've discussed this but I'm not sure the whole > > > idea > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> crystalized. > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> My > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> proposal (based on previous discussions) below. > > I'll > > > > use > > > > > > iOS > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> an > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> example > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> but this applies to all platforms supported by > > the > > > > CLI. > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> First, we'd add two files: > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> cordova-ios > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> |-package.json > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> '-index.js > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> …I don't think I need to describe the utility > of > > > > > > > package.json > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> but > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> index.js > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> would expose programatic library apis: > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> module.exports = { create:Function, > run:Function, > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> build:Function, > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> clean:Function, log:Function} > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> We then publish to npm. That is it for now. > Ideal > > > > > future > > > > > > > CLI > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> uses > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> platforms just like other deps. We lose lazy loading > > but > > > > > > network > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> and > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> disk > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> is cheap so it wasn't really important anyhow. > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Discuss! > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
