Hi Chris,
I would like to thank you for your helpful insight.
GenApp is currently dependent on Airavata for job submission to managed
resources.
GenApp+Airavata can be a nice use case for users wanting setup a
scientific gateway
wrapping scientific modules.
Therefore, GenApp *should* synchronize with Airavata releases and I can
see a benefit to be "bound".
But as you suggest, perhaps these details should be best ironed out
under incubator status.
-Emre
Mattmann, Chris A (3980) wrote:
Hi Suresh,
I would honestly advise against this for a multitude of
reasons. Note we recently went through a similar thought
on OODT/Wings with the prevailing sentiment from me and
a few others being suggesting Wings either goes through
Incubation at the ASF or remain at Github until there is
an actual connection (direct) between Wings and OODT such
that they are complimentary products and “bound” together
(aka you can’t release one without the other).
Here are a few reasons:
1. Binding the products together on a committee requires
that the committee (PMC) have merit in each other’s products.
I don’t see that starting off at least.
2. Having mutual products together also potentially binds
their release cycle - sure we can release as a committee
“independent products”, but there is then scrutiny and
sometimes “forced” instead of “natural” binding glue
developed between the software products if it wasn’t there
already.
3. IP clearance; brand; trademarks etc are things that
the PMC can do, but that things like the Incubator is set
up to help (or even direct to TLP options that are now
available [see Zest]).
There are many more reasons that “umbrella” projects didn’t
work out at the ASF and are generally discouraged. I wouldn’t
recommend turning Airavata into one.
Instead, I would recommend the following:
R1. GenApp through the Incubator
R2. Mentors include the Airavata community PMC members that
are ASF or IPMC members (Suresh, Marlon, etc.)
R3. GenApp consider a few Airavata PMC/committers in its
initial PPMC makeup to develop synergy between the groups,
and to see if there are answers to 1-3 and more to be worked
out during Incubation.
If the result of R1-R3 yields a desire to “graduate into
Airavata” the answers to the questions 1-3 above will have
been worked out and it will be a much easier answer then.
Cheers,
Chris
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Chief Architect
Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
Email:chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov
WWW:http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
-----Original Message-----
From: <Marru>, Suresh<sma...@iu.edu>
Reply-To:"dev@airavata.apache.org" <dev@airavata.apache.org>
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 11:14 AM
To: Emre Brookes<e...@biochem.uthscsa.edu>
Cc: Airavata Dev<dev@airavata.apache.org>
Subject: [DISCUSS] Accept GenApp into Apache Airavata
Hi All,
Since there is not much discussion on this thread, I will make it more
explicit on one option (which is Emre’s preference) and solicit further
discussion.
How about Emre can bring in GenApp into Airavata, integrate it further
into Airavata and bootstrap the community here. Some of Airavata
Community might get interested in GenApp. Once there is a quorum and feel
if GenApp goals are diverging from Airavata (or if the community becomes
distinct), then GenApp could go through incubator and get on a path
towards a Apache Top Level Project (TLP).
Either way, Emre has been guiding GSoC students, on Airavata Integration,
I suggest they join the dev list and write their proposals on this list.
Thoughts, concerns?
Cheers,
Suresh
P.S Chris, I am taking liberty to send your private list reply to this,
please excuse.
On Mar 22, 2015, at 3:45 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980)
<chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
Hi everyone! Welcome Emre and if there are any questions about
Incubation I’d be happy to help answer them. Suresh great work
bringing the conversation to the lists.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Chief Architect
Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
Email:chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov
WWW:http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On Mar 19, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Marru, Suresh<sma...@iu.edu> wrote:
Hi Emre,
I firstly applaud the CCP-SAS team in having GenApp as an Open Source
project with an interest to grow a community. Normally, Apache has not
been encouraging “umbrella” projects where lot of sub-projects exist. So
the suggest mechanism, will be to go through the Incubator Process and
work towards a GenApp top level project. But, here is a debatable
situation and there are multiple ways we can view this.
* GenApp can be considered a downstream project of Airavata in which
case it can be argued for a stand alone project.
* GenApp is consuming Airavata API’s and helping users build gateways
based on their applications (the lab generated code you refer below). In
this perspective, GenApp could rightly belong into Airavata itself and
have its own product releases. This is very similar to how Airavata
currently releases XBaya and very soon a PHP Gateway.
Ofcourse, there is a pragmatic way to approach this and have you get
started within Airavata and if we realize its significant to stand on
its own (and you might have generated some developer/community interest
by then), this can then spin off into an incubator project and
eventually into a TLP.
I am cc’ing Airavata Community for input. I would have suggested apache
incubator general list, but that may be early to start with. We should
have expert advice here (there are a lot of apache members on airavata
pmc and we have Chris Mattmann who is member of the current board).
Cheers,
Suresh
On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:23 AM, Emre Brookes<e...@biochem.uthscsa.edu>
wrote:
Dear Suresh Marru,
I am writing this letter pursuant to your consideration of the
inclusion of
"GenApp" as a sub-project of Apache Airavata.
The GenApp framework is a new open framework generating code on a set
of scientific modules that is easily extensible to new environments.
For example, one can take a set of module definitions and generate a
complete HTML5/PHP science gateway and a Qt4/GUI application on the
identical set of modules. If a new technology comes along, the
framework can easily be extended to new "target languages" by
including appropriate code fragments without effecting the underlying
modules. One motivation for the development was based upon observation
of scientific lab generated code, which frequently is underfunded and
developed by overburdened researchers. Many times useful code and
routines are lost with the retirement or redirected interest of the
scientists. One goal for this framework is to insure good scientific
software can be preserved in an ever evolving software landscape
without the expense of a full time CS staff. A GSoC 2014 project
integrated GenApp with Apache Airavata in the HTML5/PHP, Qt3/GUI
and Qt4/GUI "target languages".
The GenApp framework was developed for and is currently in use by
CCP-SAShttp://ccp-sas.org to make accessible codes involved
in the the scientific analysis of small angle scattering experiments.
After reviewing the philosophy of Apache
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
we feel in concert and believe the GenApp code and Apache will benefit
by its inclusion. We understand that there will be additional work
and overhead involved in managing such a project, but that their are
many benefits. As one of our projects goals is to insure the longevity
of scientific lab developed software, building a community is
essential.
Apache membership will provide an established organization for users
and developers to collaborate. As we are in a rapid growth phase,
with multiple scientific labs interested in bringing their codes to the
framework, and a formal roll out to the scientific community of
a GenApp generated science gateway at the end of May, we feel the
time is now to apply the Apache model.
Please let me know if you have any questions or wish further details.
Best regards,
Emre
Emre Brookes
Assistant Professor
Department of Biochemistry,
U. Texas Health Science Center @ San Antonio
e...@biochem.uthscsa.edu
