Hi Chris, I appreciate you taking time in such a detail, very insightful. I am ok either way and will defer to Emre.
Suresh > On Mar 26, 2015, at 2:39 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Suresh, > > I would honestly advise against this for a multitude of > reasons. Note we recently went through a similar thought > on OODT/Wings with the prevailing sentiment from me and > a few others being suggesting Wings either goes through > Incubation at the ASF or remain at Github until there is > an actual connection (direct) between Wings and OODT such > that they are complimentary products and “bound” together > (aka you can’t release one without the other). > > Here are a few reasons: > > 1. Binding the products together on a committee requires > that the committee (PMC) have merit in each other’s products. > I don’t see that starting off at least. > > 2. Having mutual products together also potentially binds > their release cycle - sure we can release as a committee > “independent products”, but there is then scrutiny and > sometimes “forced” instead of “natural” binding glue > developed between the software products if it wasn’t there > already. > > 3. IP clearance; brand; trademarks etc are things that > the PMC can do, but that things like the Incubator is set > up to help (or even direct to TLP options that are now > available [see Zest]). > > There are many more reasons that “umbrella” projects didn’t > work out at the ASF and are generally discouraged. I wouldn’t > recommend turning Airavata into one. > > Instead, I would recommend the following: > > R1. GenApp through the Incubator > R2. Mentors include the Airavata community PMC members that > are ASF or IPMC members (Suresh, Marlon, etc.) > R3. GenApp consider a few Airavata PMC/committers in its > initial PPMC makeup to develop synergy between the groups, > and to see if there are answers to 1-3 and more to be worked > out during Incubation. > > If the result of R1-R3 yields a desire to “graduate into > Airavata” the answers to the questions 1-3 above will have > been worked out and it will be a much easier answer then. > > Cheers, > Chris > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > Chief Architect > Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398) > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527 > Email: [email protected] > WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: <Marru>, Suresh <[email protected]> > Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 11:14 AM > To: Emre Brookes <[email protected]> > Cc: Airavata Dev <[email protected]> > Subject: [DISCUSS] Accept GenApp into Apache Airavata > >> Hi All, >> >> Since there is not much discussion on this thread, I will make it more >> explicit on one option (which is Emre’s preference) and solicit further >> discussion. >> >> How about Emre can bring in GenApp into Airavata, integrate it further >> into Airavata and bootstrap the community here. Some of Airavata >> Community might get interested in GenApp. Once there is a quorum and feel >> if GenApp goals are diverging from Airavata (or if the community becomes >> distinct), then GenApp could go through incubator and get on a path >> towards a Apache Top Level Project (TLP). >> >> Either way, Emre has been guiding GSoC students, on Airavata Integration, >> I suggest they join the dev list and write their proposals on this list. >> >> Thoughts, concerns? >> >> Cheers, >> Suresh >> >> P.S Chris, I am taking liberty to send your private list reply to this, >> please excuse. >> >> On Mar 22, 2015, at 3:45 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone! Welcome Emre and if there are any questions about >> Incubation I’d be happy to help answer them. Suresh great work >> bringing the conversation to the lists. >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> Chief Architect >> Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398) >> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527 >> Email: [email protected] >> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department >> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> >>> On Mar 19, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Marru, Suresh <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Emre, >>> >>> I firstly applaud the CCP-SAS team in having GenApp as an Open Source >>> project with an interest to grow a community. Normally, Apache has not >>> been encouraging “umbrella” projects where lot of sub-projects exist. So >>> the suggest mechanism, will be to go through the Incubator Process and >>> work towards a GenApp top level project. But, here is a debatable >>> situation and there are multiple ways we can view this. >>> >>> * GenApp can be considered a downstream project of Airavata in which >>> case it can be argued for a stand alone project. >>> * GenApp is consuming Airavata API’s and helping users build gateways >>> based on their applications (the lab generated code you refer below). In >>> this perspective, GenApp could rightly belong into Airavata itself and >>> have its own product releases. This is very similar to how Airavata >>> currently releases XBaya and very soon a PHP Gateway. >>> >>> Ofcourse, there is a pragmatic way to approach this and have you get >>> started within Airavata and if we realize its significant to stand on >>> its own (and you might have generated some developer/community interest >>> by then), this can then spin off into an incubator project and >>> eventually into a TLP. >>> >>> I am cc’ing Airavata Community for input. I would have suggested apache >>> incubator general list, but that may be early to start with. We should >>> have expert advice here (there are a lot of apache members on airavata >>> pmc and we have Chris Mattmann who is member of the current board). >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Suresh >>> >>>> On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:23 AM, Emre Brookes <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Suresh Marru, >>>> >>>> I am writing this letter pursuant to your consideration of the >>>> inclusion of >>>> "GenApp" as a sub-project of Apache Airavata. >>>> >>>> The GenApp framework is a new open framework generating code on a set >>>> of scientific modules that is easily extensible to new environments. >>>> For example, one can take a set of module definitions and generate a >>>> complete HTML5/PHP science gateway and a Qt4/GUI application on the >>>> identical set of modules. If a new technology comes along, the >>>> framework can easily be extended to new "target languages" by >>>> including appropriate code fragments without effecting the underlying >>>> modules. One motivation for the development was based upon observation >>>> of scientific lab generated code, which frequently is underfunded and >>>> developed by overburdened researchers. Many times useful code and >>>> routines are lost with the retirement or redirected interest of the >>>> scientists. One goal for this framework is to insure good scientific >>>> software can be preserved in an ever evolving software landscape >>>> without the expense of a full time CS staff. A GSoC 2014 project >>>> integrated GenApp with Apache Airavata in the HTML5/PHP, Qt3/GUI >>>> and Qt4/GUI "target languages". >>>> >>>> The GenApp framework was developed for and is currently in use by >>>> CCP-SAS http://ccp-sas.org to make accessible codes involved >>>> in the the scientific analysis of small angle scattering experiments. >>>> >>>> After reviewing the philosophy of Apache >>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html >>>> we feel in concert and believe the GenApp code and Apache will benefit >>>> by its inclusion. We understand that there will be additional work >>>> and overhead involved in managing such a project, but that their are >>>> many benefits. As one of our projects goals is to insure the longevity >>>> of scientific lab developed software, building a community is >>>> essential. >>>> Apache membership will provide an established organization for users >>>> and developers to collaborate. As we are in a rapid growth phase, >>>> with multiple scientific labs interested in bringing their codes to the >>>> framework, and a formal roll out to the scientific community of >>>> a GenApp generated science gateway at the end of May, we feel the >>>> time is now to apply the Apache model. >>>> >>>> Please let me know if you have any questions or wish further details. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Emre >>>> >>>> >>>> Emre Brookes >>>> Assistant Professor >>>> Department of Biochemistry, >>>> U. Texas Health Science Center @ San Antonio >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>> >
