And I agree with you :) (but with a twist).

I do not say we should remove "UPDATING.md" information.  Not at all.

Providing that:

* UPDATING.md contains both
* It is available in our User-facing docs
* it has an anchor to this particular "piece of upgrading"
* the deprecated error message has a direct link to it to help to find it

I (and our users I hope) would be perfectly happy.

As far as I know. UPDATING.md is only in Github (I just checked and I
could not find in in airflow.apache.org. So by definition it's not a
User documentation. It's developer documentation only.

J




On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 5:20 PM Kaxil Naik <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Partially agree -- not completely.
>
> Firstly what I agree - (1) and (2) points from your email.
>
> Disagree the (3) point and the para after that.
>
> UPDATING.md is our source of breaking changes. Instead of users just having 
> to rely and checking "deprecation" for 100s of commands, we should be helpful 
> to users by also having a single page where we list all the deprecations.
>
> That is another way of being helpful in finding the "right" information and 
> context quickly too. And "Guiding the users" in a different way.
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 4:13 PM Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I really think about a chapter (Which was missing):
>>
>> "How should I approach this migration?"
>>
>> 1) explain why there is no 1-1 migration instruction
>> 2) explain that for every smart sensor they need to use or write
>> deferrable operator
>> 3) link to this information from "deprecation message" they will see
>> in the logs when they use smart sensor (rather than relying on the
>> fact that they will look at UPDATING.md and find the right part
>>
>> That's it, Guiding the users. Being helpful in finding the right
>> information and context quickly (at the place where they hit the error
>> and not in one of the 100 pages of documentation that they will only
>> find by googling.
>>
>> J.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 5:09 PM Kaxil Naik <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Just as an FYI - the commit 18 hours ago on that PR already had added 
>> > "deprecation" in the docs too.
>> >
>> > Not only docs, but UPDATING.md, even in the Scheduler logs, so kudos to 
>> > Jed for taking care of it.
>> >
>> > So I don't agree with your comment or suggestion Jarek at least in the 
>> > context of this discussion as it makes me (at least) read that the PR does 
>> > not do those things.
>> >
>> > re: Tomek's question - it is a very valid question. Unfortunately, I don't 
>> > see a like-by-like replacement for DAG Authors as different work needs to 
>> > be done to write an Async operator and make a sensor "smart sensor 
>> > compatible".
>> > However, agree that we try to be as clear as possible on what a user might 
>> > need to do - I just don't know what that would be other than what I 
>> > suggested in last email and would love the feedback on the PR of what else 
>> > can be included.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Kaxil
>> >
>> > On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 4:00 PM Kaxil Naik <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I don't think there is a 1-1 migration path. Async operators supersede 
>> >> what Smart sensors were written to achieve - Cost Savings.
>> >>
>> >> Smart Sensors were marked experimental feature for the same reason and 
>> >> there are currently just two Sensors that are Smart
>> >> sensors compatible.
>> >>
>> >> The only thing I can currently think of is writing an async version of 
>> >> the Smart Sensor Hook and Operator differs based on the underlying 
>> >> library that is used and 
>> >> https://airflow.apache.org/docs/apache-airflow/stable/concepts/deferring.html
>> >>  explains how you can write one. Also - 
>> >> https://airflow.apache.org/docs/apache-airflow/stable/concepts/deferring.html#smart-sensors
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> I believe we have done quite a bad job in the past assuming that our
>> >>> users read all the discussions and AIPs we write. They don't. They
>> >>> need some guidance.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Which instances? I am just curious to know what are those bad instances 
>> >> where we "assumed" that our users read mailing list and not covered it in 
>> >> UPDATING.md or docs.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Kaxil
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 3:46 PM Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Extremely good point Tomek.
>> >>>
>> >>> Also as Ephraim pointed out in the PR - IMHO any time when we do
>> >>> deprecation we should have a note in our docs, explaining at the very
>> >>> least how the users should approach the migration as correctly pointed
>> >>> out by @turbaszek in the devlist.
>> >>> I think this should be a standard of any deprecation we do.
>> >>>
>> >>> I believe we have done quite a bad job in the past assuming that our
>> >>> users read all the discussions and AIPs we write. They don't. They
>> >>> need some guidance.
>> >>>
>> >>> J.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 11:44 PM Tomasz Urbaszek <[email protected]> 
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Do we have documentation about how to migrate from smart sensors to 
>> >>> > deferrable operators?

Reply via email to