Thanks for the context. So, I created the slack workspace and it has ~ 100 people on it now and it pretty active.
What's pretty cool is that some folks created regional channels (e.g. singapore, boston, etc...), which is a good way to seed future meetups. At some point, we may want to retire the Gitter channel. -s On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:45 PM Jakob Homan <jgho...@gmail.com> wrote: > So, binding VOTEs are generally only called on releases, where PMC > members get those binding votes (and on electing new committers or PMC > members, and those votes happen in private on the private list). > Communities often call VOTEs on other things, like logos, questions of > sponsorship, large scale tech decisions, etc. How those VOTEs are > executed (consesus [ie anyone with a binding vote can VETO] or > majority) are up to the community to decide. > > The community can codify those decisions with bylaws (Here's Hadoop's: > https://hadoop.apache.org/bylaws.html). However, extensive bylaws are > considered an anti-pattern - they can be indicative of a fractured or > unwieldy community. This is why Incubator projects are not generally > recommended to go down this route. Also, incubator podlings are not > separate top-level projects, and so would be governed by the Incubator > project bylaws, which as far as I can tell, don't exist. > > Also, keep in mind that the bylaws of any particular project are valid > at the pleasure of the Board. If the Board deems any part of them > invalid, which it has done even very recently, it can come in and > require the project to change them immediately. > > As for the current discussion, the large number of <1 votes, is a bit > concerning. This is indicative of lack of consensus and that further > discussion is probably warranted. Whether or not it's an official > result is up for debate. > > However, one thing worth noting is that there's no 'official' gitter > or slack channel for any ASF project. The only official communication > medium for ASF is mailing lists. The edict 'If it didn't happen on > the mailing list, it didn't happen' is one of the axioms of the Apache > Way [1][2]. There's also no official IRC channel or official Stack > Overflow tag or official in-person meetup. Every member of the > community is welcome to participate in whatever forum they want, but > the only place things actually happen is on the list. Any non-PMC > discussions can happen anywhere, but if a decision needs to occur as > part of that discussion, the discussion needs to be re-homed onto the > mailing list and made there. Part of the PMC's job is to enforce and > model this behavior. > > Speaking entirely for myself, I'm not comfortable with the invitation > model of Slack discussions. For most of my time at Apache, irc was > the way to go for most projects. Some had very active irc channels > and some were nearly dead. (The #infra irc channel is a godsend > though.) > > And again, this type of meta discussion is awesome. It shows the > project is maturing and thinking through some of the edge cases of > what it means to an Apache project. > > -Jakob > > > > [1] > https://community.apache.org/newbiefaq.html#NewbieFAQ-IsthereaCodeofConductforApacheprojects > ? > [2] > https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/success-at-apache-asynchronous-decision > > On 8 September 2018 at 23:14, Sid Anand <san...@apache.org> wrote: > > Taking Binding votes into account : > > > > +1: 1 vote > > > > - Sid Anand > > > > 0: 2 votes > > > > - Bolke de Bruin > > - Kaxil Naik > > > > -0.5: 1 vote > > > > - Arthur Wiedmer > > > > > > Vote result is a net positive of +0.5. > > > > I counted all of the PMC/committers' votes as binding. > > > > -s > > > > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:07 PM Arthur Wiedmer <arthur.wied...@gmail.com > > > > wrote: > > > >> Sid, > >> > >> Erm, the next line is (emphasis mine) : > >> > >> PMC members have formally binding votes, but in general community > members > >> are encouraged to vote, even if their votes are *only advisory*. > >> > >> Again, that's not to say that the community at large cannot decide to > host > >> a Slack channel. I think you are more than welcome to if you want to. > >> > >> Best, > >> Arthur > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Sid Anand <san...@apache.org> wrote: > >> > >> > Why doesn't every vote matter for this topic? > >> > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes > >> > > >> > Am I misinterpreting the "Who is permitted to vote is, to some > extent, a > >> > community-specific thing."? > >> > > >> > For the established Apache processes around promoting a contributor to > >> > committer/PMC, deciding on the number of +1s to allow a merge to > master, > >> or > >> > voting on releases, I understand the need to follow the > >> binding/non-binding > >> > protocol. In all of those cases, the outcomes affect maintainers. > >> > > >> > My understanding is that this topic affects the entire community, > where > >> > some members of the community are helping others. This seems to chug > >> along > >> > without maintainers being present. Hence, why do maintainers' votes > >> matter > >> > more here? > >> > > >> > Question for the mentors.. Jakob? > >> > > >> > -s > >> > > >> > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:27 PM Bolke de Bruin <bdbr...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > > Committers can only vote binding. Most of the time it is tagged by, > >> > > indeed, adding "binding" to the vote. > >> > > > >> > > Sent from my iPhone > >> > > > >> > > > On 9 Sep 2018, at 07:20, Scott Halgrim <scott.halg...@zapier.com > >> > .INVALID> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after your > vote? > >> > > >> On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin < > bdbr...@gmail.com>, > >> > > wrote: > >> > > >> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote. Please > >> > update > >> > > the > >> > > >> result accordingly. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Btw did you ask on gitter itself? > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <san...@apache.org>: > >> > > >> > >> > > >>> +1: 12 votes > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> - Sid Anand > >> > > >>> - Steve Carpenter > >> > > >>> - Beau Barker > >> > > >>> - Marc Bollinger > >> > > >>> - Pedro Machado > >> > > >>> - Scott Halgrim > >> > > >>> - Eamon Keane > >> > > >>> - Adam Boscarino > >> > > >>> - Daniel Cohen > >> > > >>> - Chandu Kavar > >> > > >>> - William Horton > >> > > >>> - Ben Gregory > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> 0: 2 votes > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> - Bolke de Bruin > >> > > >>> - Kaxil Naik > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> -0.5: 1 vote > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> - Arthur Wiedmer > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> -1: 4 votes > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> - Shah Altaf > >> > > >>> - James Meickle > >> > > >>> - Ravi Kotecha > >> > > >>> - airflowuser (??) > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against. The > >> > > community > >> > > >>> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter. > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> -s > >> > > >>> > >> > > > >> > > >> >
