I'd like to second the first two opinions regarding Ant and Ivy.

I can't say that I'm very familiar with Maven, but from what I know, Ivy is
way superior to it (in my opinion, of course). At the expense of being more
complex, it is terser, customizable and, generally, more capable.
I've used it professionally and personally and am really hopeful it would
not be sacked. I also use IveDE (yes, Eclipse!) and like it quite a lot.
That said, if Ivy continues to live on, it will be pretty simple to use
just it (no IvyDE).

Sadly, to paraphrase the old adage - fashion over function...


On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 10:29 AM D'Anjou, Martin <mdan...@ciena.com.invalid>

> Hi,
> I'd like to say that we're seriously considering migrating our dependency
> management from Gradle to Ivy because of the lack of branch support in
> Gradle's dependency management, and because we can't find a way to modify
> Gradle's dependency management without also changing its core. We can
> create a custom resolver in Ivy that supports our branch scenarios, and
> apparently without touching its core.
> So I hope Ivy has a future.
> Martin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: s.an...@infass.com.INVALID <s.an...@infass.com.INVALID>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2023 12:45 PM
> To: ivy-u...@ant.apache.org; dev@ant.apache.org
> Cc: u...@ant.apache.org
> Subject: [**EXTERNAL**] RE: Future of Ivy and IvyDE
> Hi,
> I can't really discuss how many developers use Ivy and how it is difficult
> to maintain this project if there is not enough maintainers...
> But I can give hints about our usage in our companies:
> * We love "ant", it's for us a clear language syntax that can achieve our
> build processes like we want (and we have a good expertise about it)
> * We had need to move on more modern way to handle dependencies
> * We use ivy for that
> * We have a tight integration inside our custom CI chain and in our IDE.
> We didn't use IvyDE
> For sure, we know that "ant" is an older daddy inside the building tools
> area
> Ivy have their caveats but we are able to integrate it nicely inside our
> build chain.
> We can have 2 orientations:
> * Move to another build tool and don't use anymore ant
> * Move to another dependency tool usable by ant (at this date, I'm not
> sure, we have real alternative to Ivy)
> * Continue to use Ant + Ivy as long as we can
> What I can say : we appreciate the couple of ant + ivy and if possible we
> would love to continue to use them !
> Sébastien.
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Stefan Bodewig <bode...@apache.org> Envoyé : mardi 22 août 2023
> 18:02 À : dev@ant.apache.org Cc : u...@ant.apache.org;
> ivy-u...@ant.apache.org Objet : Future of Ivy and IvyDE
> Hi all
> before I get to the actual content of this mail:
> * I'm cross-posting to three lists but I ask you to keep responses to
>   dev@ant only (and join the list if necessary) if you want to respond.
> * what I write is my personal opinion and not shared by the PMC as a
>   whole. The people on the PMC know I'd be writing a mail like this
>   sooner or later, though.
> * this is a discussion, not a vote.
> phew
> I'm not quite sure what I hope to achieve with this email, but I'd like to
> share my thoughts - and raise the awareness of an elephant being in the
> room.
> Over the past year we've had three security vulnerabilities discovered in
> Ivy and it took us much too long to get them fixed. The reason for this is
> there are no people left around who are familiar with the Ivy code base.
> Most of the remaining developers around Ant are not even users of Ivy - I
> know I am not and have never been.
> When it comes to IvyDE things are probably even worse as nobody of us uses
> Eclipse, either. But then again I've not managed to create an Eclipse
> update site for the last two Ivy releases so maybe nobody is using IvyDE
> anymore anyway.
> At least *I* don't see myself digging deeper into the Ivy code base in
> order to fix non-critical bugs. And even for the critical ones I feel we
> are not doing an adequate job. To me it looks as if Ivy and in particilar
> IvyDE are no longer really supported by the Ant project.
> TBH I'm not quite sure what to do about this. Even if people stepped up to
> maintain Ivy, the rest of the Ant devs would probably be unable to verify
> the changes they want to make. At least I certainly am not willing to
> review bigger PRs/patches to a code base I don't understand well.
> Personally I believe we should send IvyDE to the Apache Attic immediately,
> and this likely should be the destination for Ivy sooner or later as well.
> In the case of Ivy we know there are people who depend on it (hi, Groovy
> folks) so maybe we should give a date in the future until which we are
> providing security bug fixes to give people time to move off.
> There may be the need for a dependency management system inside of Ant,
> I'm not sure. If so, then this should be driven by people who feel the
> actual need IMO. There may already be alternatives to Ivy I am not aware of.
> Stefan

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