Hi Tom, Thanks for the feedback. I've been thinking about having a similar conversation on the user list, and thought I would start out on the developer list first. Like a lot of open source projects, I assume that the developers eat their own dogfood, and so seeing how they use it (and the bits of it that they don't use) is informative.
It sounds like we probably use ArgoUML in similar ways, although I don't use AndroMDA. I see what you mean about the "design". Regardless of the amount of effort that goes into design, there's always this cognitive disconnect amongst the team members, which is usually resolved when people begin committing code. It kinda reminds me of the film Rashomon. Lots of witnesses to the crime, and everyone has a different view of it. I'll definitely take a look at the links that you've sent. Thanks, Mark On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Tom Morris <[email protected]> wrote: > On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Mark Fortner <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Does the process above roughly fit the way everyone else is using > ArgoUML at > > work? Has anyone had any problems getting other people to use ArgoUML at > > work? If so, what get's in the way? How do people use ArgoUML in teams? > > Do you do design reviews, if so, how do you use ArgoUML to make that > > happen? Do you generate code from ArgoUML models? If not, why not? > > I'd argue that the developers are the least interesting community to > ask this question of. In my mind, many of ArgoUML's shortcomings can > be traced to lack of engagement with real world users. > > Some of the things I use (or have used) ArgoUML for include: > > - to sketch little design vignettes to share with people (a handful of > classes on a single diagram) > - to look at UML models created by other people (often standards > groups, usually using a different tool, which can create interchange > problems) > - to visualize and understand new, large code bases using reverse > engineering (not very successfully usually due to some of the problems > others have mentioned) > - as an input tool for MDA using AndroMDA (mainly to get a lot of the > db table generation cruft done like Andreas) > > I would never attempt to keep code and UML in sync using ArgoUML. > That's an awful lot of effort for very little gain. I *might* try to > do it if I had really excellent round-tripping support available to > me, but probably not even then. > > Thinking of UML as the "design" is a fallacy in my mind. The design > is an abstract thing which lives in the shared understanding of the > team members. To the degree that the team members haven't converged > on a shared design, there are N designs (or perhaps a single design > with fuzzy edges). The UML, the design documents, the code, the white > board drawings are all *representations* of the design, with varying > degrees of fidelity, but they are not *the design*. > > I don't think the industry has yet to come up with a way to capture > designs which is lightweight enough to use on a consistent basis, but > also preserves all the important aspects of the design. You either > end up investing huge amounts of time/money in design documentation > which a) usually isn't used and b) when it is used is *still* missing > some important aspect of the design or you end up going the "agile" > approach and maintaining the design information using social > constructs (supported by code & tests), but leaving yourself at risk > for losing key design information when staffing changes. > > Tom > > p.s. It's been a while since I played with it, but a local (to me) > company that's trying to address some of these challenges is > Architexa. http://www.architexa.com/ They've got an online > collaboration site for open source projects at > http://www.codemaps.org/ which demonstrates some of the > collaborative/review aspects. Not a plug for a competitor - just > something interesting to look at for people interested in this space. > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > http://argouml.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=450&dsMessageId=2943771 > > To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [ > [email protected]]. > To be allowed to post to the list contact the mailing list moderator, > email: [[email protected]] > ------------------------------------------------------ http://argouml.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=450&dsMessageId=2943785 To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [[email protected]]. To be allowed to post to the list contact the mailing list moderator, email: [[email protected]]
