As a contributor to the Beam Python SDK, I noticed that many of the points above regarding Maven and Gradle pertain mostly to Java SDK development. For Python development, Maven is much less natural, and we end up just shelling out to perform builds and tests. For Python SDK (and upcoming Go SDK development), an option to use Bazel would be quite useful.
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 10:42 AM Robert Bradshaw <[email protected]> wrote: > +1, Maven is both a build tool and a repository, and the latter is > essential to keep. Both Gradel and Bazel can interface with this > repository. > > I am, however, very supportive of moving away from Maven to a tool > that supports correct incremental, hermetic, dependency-driven, > multi-langauge, and hopefully fast builds for our own development. > > On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Kenneth Knowles > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Echoing what JB and Reuven said, we absolutely must provide maven central > > artifacts for Java users, just as we provide pypi artifacts for Python > > users. > > > > I see Maven as still a viable tool for single-module Java builds, > > especially considering its rich plugin ecosystem. > > > > On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Reuven Lax <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> I think that's a very good point. No matter what build system we use for > >> our own personal development, we still need to release Maven artifacts > and > >> releases as we need to support our users using Maven. > >> > >> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 11:26 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected] > > > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Generally speaking, it's interesting to evaluate alternatives, > especially > >> > Gradle. My point is also to keep Maven artifacts and "releases" as > most > >> of > >> > our users will use Maven. > >> > For incremental build, afair, there's some enhancements on Maven but I > >> > have to take a look. > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > JB > >> > > >> > On Oct 31, 2017, 07:22, at 07:22, Eugene Kirpichov > >> > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >Hi! > >> > > > >> > >Many of these points sound valid, but AFAICT Maven doesn't really do > >> > >incremental builds [1]. The best it can do is, it seems, recompile > only > >> > >changed files, but Java compilation is a tiny part of the overall > >> > >build. > >> > > > >> > >Almost all time is taken by other plugins, such as unit testing or > >> > >findbugs > >> > >- and Maven does not seem to currently support features such as "do > not > >> > >rerun unit tests of a module if the code didn't change". > >> > > > >> > >The fact that the surefire plugin has existed for >11 years (version > >> > >2.0 > >> > >was released in 2006) and still doesn't have this feature makes me > >> > >think > >> > >that it's unlikely to be supported in the next few years either. > >> > > > >> > >I suspect most PRs affect a very small number of modules, so I think > >> > >the > >> > >performance advantage of a build system truly supporting incremental > >> > >builds > >> > >may be so overwhelming as to trump many other factors. Of course, > we'd > >> > >need > >> > >to prototype and have hard numbers in hand to discuss this with more > >> > >substance. > >> > > > >> > >[1] > >> > >https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8918165/does-maven- > >> > support-incremental-builds > >> > > > >> > >On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 10:57 PM Romain Manni-Bucau > >> > ><[email protected]> > >> > >wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> Hi > >> > >> > >> > >> Even if not a commiter or even PMC, I'd like to mention a few > points > >> > >from > >> > >> an external eye: > >> > >> > >> > >> - Maven stays the most common build tool and easier one for any > user. > >> > >It > >> > >> means it is the best one to hope contributions IMHO. > >> > >> - Maven has incremental support but if there is any blocker the > >> > >community > >> > >> is probably ready to enhance it (has been done for compiler plugin > >> > >for > >> > >> instance) > >> > >> - Gradle hides issues easily with its daemon so a build without > >> > >daemon is > >> > >> needed > >> > >> - Gradle doesnt isolate plugins well enough so ensure your planned > >> > >plugins > >> > >> doesnt conflict > >> > >> - Only Maven is correctly supported in mainstream and OS/free IDE > >> > >> > >> > >> This is the reasons why I think Maven is better - not even entering > >> > >into > >> > >> the ASF points. > >> > >> > >> > >> Now Maven is not perfect but some quick enhancements can be done: > >> > >> > >> > >> - A fast build profile can be created > >> > >> - Takari scheduler can be used yo enhance the parallel build > >> > >> - Scripts can be provided to build a subpart of the project > >> > >> - A beam extension can surely be done to optimize or compute the > >> > >reactors > >> > >> more easily based on module names > >> > >> > >> > >> Romain > >> > >> > >> > >> Le 31 oct. 2017 06:42, "Jean-Baptiste Onofré" <[email protected]> a > >> > >écrit : > >> > >> > >> > >> -0 > >> > >> > >> > >> For the following reasons reasons: > >> > >> - maven is a Apache project and we can have support/improvement > >> > >> - I don't see how another build tool would speed up the build by > >> > >itself > >> > >> - Apache default release process is based on Maven > >> > >> > >> > >> On the other hand, Gradle could be interesting. Anyway it's > something > >> > >to > >> > >> evaluate. > >> > >> > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> JB > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Oct 30, 2017, 18:46, at 18:46, Ted Yu <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> >I agree with Ben's comment. > >> > >> > > >> > >> >Recently I have been using gradle in another Apache project and > >> > >found > >> > >> >it > >> > >> >interesting. > >> > >> > > >> > >> >Cheers > >> > >> > >> > > >> >
