First of all... LOL to the alternative BIP reference... And yes Luke, I also found bib as a way to find those things.
Now the core of the discussion. @Thomas, I see how the term Roadmap could be too corporate, however I think it's what most people would understand? (We should think not only on users familiar with Open Source projects, but also in people just navigating the project to become users). I'm open to call this what makes more sense to the community. @Kenn - I agree with the idea of having a list-like collection of "ideas for the future", and after I reviewed the FLIP (Flink Improvement Proposal) overall structure/process I like it. Thomas articulated very well what would be the purpose of having a (Beam Improvement Proposal - BIP), and if I understood correctly, that would be the way we curate the list of upcoming features. Now, For the overview of what's been built and what we are working on, I still think something like a spreadsheet or a table view would help people get the "big-picture" at a glance. Unless I am not understanding how would a collection of BIPS would serve this purpose. wdyt? On Thu, 7 Jun 2018 at 15:25, Lukasz Cwik <lc...@google.com> wrote: > Isn't that a bib? > > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:33 PM Thomas Weise <t...@apache.org> wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Kenneth Knowles <k...@google.com> wrote: >> >>> I got asked this offline, so clarifying: >>> >>> FLIP = Flink Improvement Proposal [1] >>> KIP = Kafka Improvement Proposal [2] >>> SPIP = Spark Improvement Proposal [3] >>> ONIP = OpenNLP Improvement Proposal [4] >>> Zeppelin Improvement Proposal [5] inexplicably exists but did not use >>> the sweet acronym >>> >>> And that's all I found. >>> >>> BIP = Beam Improvement Proposal? >>> >> >> Indeed. And not the following :) >> >> https://www.google.com/search?q=bip+baby&source=lnms&tbm=isch >> >> >> >>> >>> Kenn >>> >>> [1] >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Flink+Improvement+Proposals >>> [2] >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Kafka+Improvement+Proposals >>> [3] https://spark.apache.org/improvement-proposals.html >>> [4] >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENNLP/OpenNLP+Improvement+Proposals >>> [5] >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ZEPPELIN/Zeppelin+Improvement+Proposals >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 8:31 AM Thomas Weise <t...@apache.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Just to unwrap BIP: How would it differ from (a) JIRA ticket and (b) a >>>>> proposal gdoc. Just for history, when Beam started, the (much smaller, and >>>>> now very different) community chose JIRA instead of BIP. How would it >>>>> relate to (c) the overview/list style page and (d) the quarterly >>>>> brainstorm. >>>>> >>>> >>>> A BIP would typically originate from a discussion ML thread, starts off >>>> with a summary, has a proposal document (with good collaborative editing >>>> features :). Later on, if it gains acceptance, there will be the usual JIRA >>>> tickets that break down the implementation work and a top level status and >>>> references section (like we have it in the WIP section on >>>> https://beam.apache.org/contribute/). The overview/list page would >>>> point to the individual BIPs. >>>> >>>> Could it be just a list of special tagged JIRAs with attachments? Each >>>> BIP should probably have a JIRA that is the top level JIRA for all the work >>>> that eventually accrues under it. Beam JIRA today is notoriously hard to >>>> navigate and make sense of, especially when looking for the bigger picture. >>>> Individual JIRAs typically lack context and often don't explain themselves >>>> let alone refer back to gdocs and email threads. So probably it will be >>>> good to have a separate index that groups items and highlights certain >>>> things in a way a JIRA report cannot support anyways, even if we were >>>> really disciplined maintaining it... >>>> >>>> The quarterly brainstorm could be an opportunity to take a deeper look >>>> at the BIP collection, possibly prune or resurrect items etc.? >>>> >>>> Thomas >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Kenn >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 7:28 AM Thomas Weise <t...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I like the idea of presenting strategic and user impacting >>>>>> initiatives (ongoing and future) in an easy to consume format, but also >>>>>> think that "roadmap" sounds a bit too corporate... >>>>>> >>>>>> Other projects, including Flink, Kafka and Spark have the concept of >>>>>> "Improvement Proposal" that could serve this purpose, so maybe it is time >>>>>> for "BIP"? >>>>>> >>>>>> There could then be an overview/list style page that shows >>>>>> in-progress and proposed items that gives the visitor an idea where the >>>>>> project is headed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, can we consider confluence for this? It is ASF hosted but >>>>>> easier to maintain than beam-site. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Thomas >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 4:59 AM, Kenneth Knowles <k...@google.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> OK, I have one note: what about longer-term "roadmap", in quotes >>>>>>> because that just means it is "ideas for the future". Like the Spark >>>>>>> runner >>>>>>> could have a written roadmap that includes lots of TODOs that extend far >>>>>>> into the future. It gives a menu of things to think about when filling >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> out each quarter. Users and contributors could potentially comment / >>>>>>> upvote. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think this is probably a separate thing than what you have here - >>>>>>> it could just be a public gdoc with no particular structure, or JIRA >>>>>>> tags >>>>>>> bundled into some kind of report - but what do you think? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kenn >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 8:37 PM Kenneth Knowles <k...@google.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is great. I'm really excited to build a community process for >>>>>>>> this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kenn >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 5:05 PM Griselda Cuevas <g...@google.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Beam Community, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd like to propose the creation of a Public Project Roadmap. Here >>>>>>>>> are the details as well as some artifacts I started already. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------_____________----------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Proposal * >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *What?* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Create a simple spreadsheet-based project roadmap to generate an >>>>>>>>> overview of all the efforts driven by different members of the >>>>>>>>> community. I >>>>>>>>> propose doing something like this tracker I put together >>>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1W6xvPmGyG8Nd9R7wkwgwRJvZdyLoBg6F3NCrPafbKmk/edit#gid=0> >>>>>>>>> [1]. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Why?* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *The ultimate purpose of this roadmap is to create a tool and >>>>>>>>> method to make our project more transparent and efficient. It will >>>>>>>>> help us >>>>>>>>> map dependencies, identify collaboration areas and communicate future >>>>>>>>> releases to users more clearly. * >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *How?* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We could update the current status of the roadmap every three >>>>>>>>> months (quarter), following these guidelines and timeline >>>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jzASbp_5GrZdsF5YXau-MPh_v0jW6egJwL_Pyac5zeE/edit#heading=h.6dyyhz5krl9v> >>>>>>>>> [2]. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> G >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1W6xvPmGyG8Nd9R7wkwgwRJvZdyLoBg6F3NCrPafbKmk/edit#gid=0 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [2] >>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jzASbp_5GrZdsF5YXau-MPh_v0jW6egJwL_Pyac5zeE/edit#heading=h.6dyyhz5krl9v >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>
