On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 9:46 AM Brian Hulette <bhule...@google.com> wrote:

> > Does it make sense to do this?
> I think this makes a lot of sense. Plus it's a good opportunity to refresh
> the UX of [1].
>

+1 to total UX refresh. I will advertise
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BEAM-2888 which has a lot of related
ideas.


> > what's a good way of doing it? Should we expand the existing Capability
> Matrix to support SDKs as well? Or should we have a new one?
> To me there are two aspects to this: how we model the data, and how we
> present the data.
>
> For modelling the data:
> Do we need to maintain the full 3-dimensional <feature - SDK - runner>
> matrix? That seems untenable to me. With portability, I think the runner
> and SDK matrix should be completely independent, so it should be safe to
> just maintain <feature - SDK>, and <feature - runner> matrices and model
> the 3-dimensional matrix as the cross-product of the two.
> Maybe we should have a new capability matrix just for portable runners so
> we can exploit this property?
>

Agree that we should not do the full product of <# runners> times <# SDKs>.
That's the whole point of portability.

Early in the project, we deliberately did not include SDKs in the
capability matrix for philosophical reasons:

 - a runner might support/not support features based on intrinsic
properties of the underlying engine, not just immaturity
 - an SDK can have no such intrinsic reason

In practice, though, the matrix is more about maturity than intrinsic
properties. And SDKs include now a significant runtime component which will
always take time to implement new model features. I think we should embrace
the matrix as primarily a measure of maturity and answer Pablo's initial
question which is most useful for users.

Kenn


> For presenting the data:
> I think there would be value in just presenting <feature - runner>
> (basically what we have now in [1]), and also presenting <feature - SDK>
> separately. The <feature - SDK> display could serve as documentation too,
> with examples of how to do Y in each SDK.
> Maybe there would also be value in presenting <feature - SDK - runner> in
> some fancy UI so an architect can quickly answer "what can I do with SDK Z
> on Runner X", but I'm not sure what that would look like.
>
> [1] https://beam.apache.org/documentation/runners/capability-matrix/
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 10:09 PM Thomas Weise <t...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> FWIW there are currently at least 2 instances of capability matrix [1]
>> [2].
>>
>> [1] has been in need of a refresh for a while.
>>
>> [2] is more useful but only covers portable runners and is hard to find.
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>> [1] https://beam.apache.org/documentation/runners/capability-matrix/
>> [2] https://s.apache.org/apache-beam-portability-support-table
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 7:52 PM Pablo Estrada <pabl...@google.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I think this is a relatively common question:
>>>
>>> - Can I do X with runner Y, and SDK Z?
>>>
>>> The answers vary significantly between SDK and Runner pairs. This makes
>>> it such that the current Capability Matrix falls somewhat short when
>>> potential users / solutions architects / etc are trying to decide to adopt
>>> Beam, and which Runner / SDK to use.
>>>
>>> I think we need to put some effort in building a capability matrix that
>>> expresses this information - and maintain it updated.
>>>
>>> I would like to discuss a few things:
>>> - Does it make sense to do this?
>>> - If it does, what's a good way of doing it? Should we expand the
>>> existing Capability Matrix to support SDKs as well? Or should we have a new
>>> one?
>>> - Any other thoughts you may have about the idea.
>>>
>>> Best
>>> -P.
>>>
>>

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