Hi Greg,
I've focused on updating the content of the current site to make it a
little more friendly to new comers who are currently presented with dead
links.
So here is a patch to the current static website. It only affects
index.html.
Created by:
$ svn diff index.html > siteupdate.patch
Summary of changes:
* Replace dead links to live.bloodhound.apache.org with most recent
web.archive.org capture.
* All original links are still present in the code just commented out
so can be easily switched back when needed.
* Brought details of the mailing list onto the main page.
* Added a brief note about current state of the project in the getting
involved section.
* Minor tweaks to wording to make the page make sense given current
situation.
* Some re-formatting of dense HTML to make it easy to work with for
manual editing.
I have noted that there has been consensus reached to switch to Pelican
(which I don't know). I thought I'd submit this patch anyway since I've
done it and it should be quick to apply in the meantime while you're
looking at Pelican. If Pelican is pretty much ready to go then the
content of this patch may still be useful.
Please could you review and apply if appropriate.
Many thanks,
Daniel
*Daniel Brownridge*
[email protected]
+44 779 138 5626
On 21/08/2023 18:08, Greg Stein wrote:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/bloodhound/site/
It is read-only, but I can override that to apply any patches you send
to dev@
Cheers,
-g
On Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 01:17 Daniel Brownridge
<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Gary,
Untill we can get live back it might be a good idea tput some more
basic info on the landing page and remove the dead links etc.
How is the website (bloodhound.apache.org
<http://bloodhound.apache.org>) hosted / updated / where does the
code live?
Happy to take on maintenance if that helps would just need some
help getting started?
If this can be done by email great but also can co-ordinate a time
when both on-line if that helps?
Cheers,
Daniel
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023, 03:47 Gary Martin, <[email protected]>
wrote:
Hi,
It is certainly good to see some interest in getting things
going again. I should probably have said something sooner but
Greg did summarise the situation pretty well.
From the point of view of where code is submitted, I totally
understand the desire to use git rather than subversion when
that is what people are likely to be most used to. When this
has been discussed before I'm pretty sure we came to the
conclusion that use of git would reduce barriers to
participation. I don't want to be forcing anyone to use
subversion.
The bloodhound-core repo is already git only and if GitHub PRs
are what the development community wants to use, we should
support that.
Meanwhile, I can't say I know if the older bloodhound repo can
accept changes via gitbox or GitHub. If it is not currently
set up correctly for that, we may still want to delay making
changes until we decide that we are going to continue 0.8
development. I imagine that INFRA has made it easy to do but
it feels better not to ask for work that may not prove
necessary. That said, if enough people disagree with my
suggestion here then I will get to requesting it.
I think that in principle we can get live.bloodhound working
again. I can of course look into this. Using GitHub for issues
for a while is fine though.
I noted some potential concern about this list getting busy
because of a lack of an issue tracker. I would still be
encouraging us to use this mailing list for some discussion
when issue tracking is restored. It provides a good point of
contact for people who don't want to go through all the
tickets. That is not to say that everything has to be
discussed but some commentary that allows others to be brought
into the discussion about the direction we are taking should
be useful.
There is probably plenty I haven't addressed here but I think
that the direction of the project is an important one to
discuss further. My experimental code has certainly not got
particularly far in its objectives at this point. There are
obviously pros and cons to such an approach.
In particular I would note that a clean(ish) break from Trac
brings with it opportunities to control all of what it is to
be the issue tracker while building on sane webserver
frameworks. It does, however, lead to the question of what
such a break would ultimately look like. Is feature parity
something that would be desired? Would we at least be happy to
avoid support for trac plugins?
Obviously continuing the development of Apache Bloodhound 0.8
certainly is not out of the question but this could also be a
difficult path. There could be some interesting decisions to
make too. The code obviously needs to move to Python 3 and
almost certainly a shift to be built on a newer version of Trac.
Anyway, I'll leave it there for the moment. In the meantime
I'll try to eke out some more time to do stuff this week,
hopefully including putting more of my thoughts together
somewhere useful.
Cheers,
Gary
On Sun, 20 Aug 2023, at 7:33 PM, Nikolay Tsanov wrote:
> I fully agree with Daniel and the top ten priorities he
suggested. I
> haven't looked at Gary's code either (assuming this is the
repo at
> https://github.com/apache/bloodhound-core), this is the
first thing I will
> do, and I will share my feedback as soon as I can.
>
> Nikolay Tsanov
> +1-819-635-7198
>
> On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 1:38 PM Daniel Brownridge <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I just wanted to say thank you to Greg and Shane for
providing all the
>> detailed information so far. It feels like we're not quite
dead (I mean in
>> the Attic) yet, but will be soon if we don't do something.
>>
>> In the interests of maintaining momentum here ,which seems
to be
>> gathering, I'll keep sharing my thoughts. I'm happy to help
in whatever way
>> I can.
>>
>> Personally I don't think I'm in a position to commit just
yet even if I
>> wanted to, I've not yet signed an ICLA but have no problem
doing so, I just
>> never got round to it before. So, I'll make that my
personal mission for
>> this week, to sort that an any associated Apache official
admin with the
>> intention that that will put me in a position to be more
useful to the
>> project going forward. As I get into that I may need to ask
for more
>> specific help but I don't quite know what I'm asking for yet!
>>
>> As for some project goals it feels like there are two main
areas we can
>> focus on.
>>
>> The first is practical getting the project up and running
stuff. The
>> second is future development and direction stuff. To me
that feels like the
>> right order because if we focus on the former it gives a
bit more time to
>> gather our collective thoughts and discuss the later.
>>
>> So for the project part. I definitely support the use of
Git as the
>> primary source code management system and think we should
move towards
>> that. If that's GitHub then that completely works for me
too. Correct me if
>> I'm wrong, but I think that it was at one point that
Bloodhound was
>> 'self-hosting' for Issues on live.bloodhound.apache.org
<http://live.bloodhound.apache.org> and for whatever
>> reason that's not the case now. Getting back to that feels
like a nice
>> thing to aim for medium term. There may be multiple things
involved in
>> doing that though and whilst this may seem contradictory I
actually also
>> agree with Nikolay in the short-term, which is we should
just use GitHub
>> issues (or whatever) until we've achieved the admin around
getting a live
>> Bloodhound up and running again.
>>
>> To elaborate a little on the above suggestion since it
might seem odd,
>> through my work recently I've had a fair bit of experience
with these
>> chicken-and-egg style problems and have dealt with a
handful of situations
>> where to achieve X you need Y but to have Y you first need
X and things go
>> round in circles for ages. But if you look at it
differently and realise
>> that although Z might not be what you want for some other
reason in the
>> short term Z provides an alternative route to X and once
you have X you can
>> go back and get Y later then things unlock and you get
moving again. So if
>> 'GitHub Issues' can be our 'Z' here then I'm all for that.
>>
>> In the very-short term lacking any form of issue tracker it
feels like
>> this mailing list probably has to serve as our main point
of contact until
>> we can fix that. That will mean that the mailing list in
the short term
>> might get (relatively) busy (but as previously stated there
are only a few
>> of us so we can probably cope).
>>
>> As for the direction, I support transitioning Bloodhound to
being Django
>> based. I have to be honest I haven't yet looked in detail
at the
>> experimental work that has been done by Gary in that area
yet, but that too
>> is going on my todo list. In general though I really like
the idea of
>> having a Python based OpenSource issue tracker that is
somewhat comparable
>> in terms of practical utility to the likes of the more
commercial tools. By
>> that I mean multi-project, support workflows, and basic
Agile features such
>> as a backlog and Kanban board style view.
>>
>> So here is a starter for 10 suggested priority list (fully
expecting
>> comments / disagreements but that's the point)
>>
>> 1. Get a live list of issues we can all get around,
somehow, somewhere.
>> Current best suggestion (which I agree with) use GitHub issues.
>>
>> 2. Switch from Subversion to Git as primary source control.
>>
>> 3. Resurrect live.bloodhound.apache.bloodhound.org
<http://live.bloodhound.apache.bloodhound.org> if possible
with the
>> current version of Bloodhound.
>>
>> 4. Make a plan to get back off GitHub issues again.
>>
>> 5. Get consensus on the future development roadmap.
(Possible features
>> suggestion - 'Make it easy to import issues from Github
Issues!')
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> *Daniel Brownridge*
>> [email protected]
>> +44 779 138 5626
>> On 20/08/2023 13:59, Nikolay Tsanov wrote:
>>
>> @Greg Stein <[email protected]> <[email protected]> , thank
you for the timely and commendably
>> thorough response. As far as the development part of the
community is
>> concerned, to top priority concern that should be dealt
with is, as you
>> defined it:
>> "- if we want to evolve this, then I'd suggest making svn
read-only and
>> carrying forward with a git-based codebase"
>>
>> The choice of a version control system goes far beyond the
tech stack, it
>> defines the governance at the technology layer of the
Bloodhound
>> architecture and, simply put, a non-Git version control
system is a
>> roadblock (I am in the same boat as Daniel Brownridge who
wrote on Aug 18,
>> 2023, 7:56 AM (2 days ago) “I’ve struggled a bit to get
started. I found
>> the Apache initiation rituals a bit challenging.").
>>
>> In personal capacity, I must regretfully let you know that
I will not
>> invest any time until this essential technology
architecture concern (Git
>> vs SVN) is formally addressed, e.g. we start using GitHub
for code review
>> and issues tracking. I know that it might sound
demoralizing that an issues
>> tracking system as Bloodhound is not eating its own dogfood
and it is using
>> a third party as GitHub for tracking its own issues,
however this is what
>> we need in order to get traction.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Nikolay Tsanov
>> +1-819-635-7198
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 19, 2023 at 10:58 PM Greg Stein
<[email protected]> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 6:08 AM Nikolay Tsanov
<[email protected]> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> Two questions:
>> 1. Is the verdict to send Bloodhound to the attic already
rendered and
>> you are simply letting us know about it, or there is still
room for
>> discussions?
>> 2. If the debate is still open, how many commits are
required per what
>> period of time in order to keep Bloodhound off the attic?
>>
>>
>> I'm just relating my experience with "how things work",
given my extensive
>> time with the ASF. I've been to over 200 Board meetings,
and unfortunately
>> missed the meeting a few days ago where Bloodhound was
discussed (I'm
>> traveling right now; which speaks to Shane's point about
"give people time;
>> 24h is not enough")
>>
>> Moving is not a given, as Shane noted later in this thread.
The Board
>> simply needs to see a community, and if that is present,
then it will defer
>> to those people (it is squishy; there are no "commit
metrics"; it's about
>> people). For all intents and purposes, there isn't an
Apache Bloodhound
>> community right now.
>>
>> ... but given the responses, is there enough? Of course. It
only takes a
>> few.
>>
>> So far, Daniel, yourself (Nikolay), and Sz have spoken up
to throw in some
>> time to see if we have enough energy to (re)launch Apache
Bloodhound.
>>
>> Let me collect a few queries into this single email...
>>
>> * the (archival) repository is in svn, and mirrored to github.
>> - if we want to evolve this, then I'd suggest making svn
read-only and
>> carrying forward with a git-based codebase
>> * the "experimental" repository is
at:https://github.com/apache/bloodhound-core
andhttps://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf/bloodhound-core.git
<http://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf/bloodhound-core.git>
>> - the above is Gary's initial work towards a v2
vision/prototype
>> - there is no community consensus on future direction, so
far;
>> individual exploration and input is needed
>> * "jettison burden" means it won't be Apache Bloodhound
>> - personally, I welcome the legal umbrella/shield of the
ASF, so I'm
>> happy that I signed an ICLA (which is not a burden, IMO)
>>
>> I think the biggest issue is in the middle there: where is
Bloodhound
>> headed? Evolve the existing branch? Strike out on something
new, like Gary
>> was exploring (a Django-based solution), or something else?
Personally, I'd
>> like to see a Quart-based app server using a sqlite
database. Keep it super
>> simple and easy to set up.
>>
>> Regarding the repository: file some PRs. Or maybe we can
use the GitHub
>> wiki to figure out a roadmap. "commit" is several steps
down the road, and
>> sure: we can easily make that happen. But even if everybody
had commit
>> tomorrow, we don't have a consensus vision yet.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -g
>>
>> ps. note that I also hold a role in Infra; I can
directly/immediately make
>> changes to support the community.
>>
>>
>>
>>
Index: index.html
===================================================================
--- index.html (revision 1911910)
+++ index.html (working copy)
@@ -5,6 +5,8 @@
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="css/bootstrap.min.css" media="screen" />
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="css/bootstrap-responsive.min.css" media="screen" />
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="css/site.css" media="screen" />
+ <!--
+ -->
</head>
<body>
<div class="container">
@@ -33,27 +35,97 @@
<li><h3>User-friendly design</h3>
<p>New users wil find it easy starting out and learn many powerful features along the way. The dashboard provides an overview of work assigned to you, or watched by you, so you'll never lose track.</p>
</li>
- <li><h3 class="highlight">Get involved!</h3>
- <p><a href="https://live.bloodhound.apache.org/bloodhound/products/BHD/wiki/BloodhoundContributing";>It's easy to get involved</a> and improve Bloodhound further. New contributors are always welcome. You can also help by <a href="https://live.bloodhound.apache.org/bloodhound/products/BHD/";>reporting bugs</a>, asking questions on the <a href="https://live.bloodhound.apache.org/bloodhound/products/BHD/wiki/BloodhoundContactInfo";>mailing list</a> or our <a href="https://live.bloodhound.apache.org/bloodhound/products/BHD/wiki/BloodhoundContactInfo";>IRC channel</a>.</p>
+ <li><h3>Get involved!</h3>
+ <p>
+ <!--
+ <a href="https://live.bloodhound.apache.org/bloodhound/products/BHD/wiki/BloodhoundContributing";>It's easy to get involved</a>
+ -->
+ It's easy to get involved and improve Bloodhound further.
+ New contributors are always welcome.
+ </p>
+ <p>
+ It's been a while since we've had a release of Bloodhound and the
+ future direction of the project is currently being discussed. At
+ the moment the best way to get involved is to join the mailing
+ list. Please see below for more details.
+ </p>
+ <!--
+ <p>
+ You can also help by
+ <a href="https://live.bloodhound.apache.org/bloodhound/products/BHD/";>reporting bugs</a>,
+ asking questions on the
+ <a href="https://live.bloodhound.apache.org/bloodhound/products/BHD/wiki/BloodhoundContactInfo";>mailing list</a>
+ or our
+ <a href="https://live.bloodhound.apache.org/bloodhound/products/BHD/wiki/BloodhoundContactInfo";>IRC channel</a>
+ .
+ </p>
+ -->
<p>We'd love to hear from you.</p>
</li>
+ <li>
+ <h3>Mailing list</h3>
+ <p>Join the discussion: [email protected]<br>
+ To sign up send an email to <strong>[email protected]</strong>.
+ We always appreciate to hear from people who are interested in the project and discussions there are the main way of influencing it.
+ There is a
+ <a class="ext-link" href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/bloodhound-dev/";>public archive of the mailing list</a>.
+ </p>
+ </li>
</ul>
<hr>
<div class="download-area">
<p><h2>Download, try, contribute</h2></p>
- <p><a class="btn btn-success" href="https://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua/bloodhound/apache-bloodhound-0.8.tar.gz";>Download now</a>
- <a href="https://live.bloodhound.apache.org/bloodhound/products/BHD/wiki/BloodhoundInstall";>Installation instructions</a></p>
- <p><a class="btn btn-primary" href="https://live.bloodhound.apache.org/bloodhound/";>Wiki + Issue tracker</a>
+ <p>
+ <a class="btn btn-success" href="https://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua/bloodhound/apache-bloodhound-0.8.tar.gz";>Download now</a>
+ <!--
+ <a href="https://live.bloodhound.apache.org/bloodhound/products/BHD/wiki/BloodhoundInstall";>Installation instructions</a>
+ -->
+ <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20211214161535/https://live.bloodhound.apache.org/bloodhound/products/BHD/wiki/BloodhoundInstall";>Installation instructions (archived Dec 14, 2021)</a>
+ </p>
+ <!--
+ <p>
+ <a class="btn btn-primary" href="https://live.bloodhound.apache.org/bloodhound/";>Wiki + Issue tracker</a>
+ </p>
+ -->
+ <p>
+ Please note, the main instance of Bloodhound (live.bloodhound.apache.org)
+ is currently down. We are working on bringing it back up.
+ In the meantime please refer to the archived version.
+ </p>
+ <p>
+ <a class="btn btn-primary" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20211214163046/https://live.bloodhound.apache.org/bloodhound";>Wiki + Issue tracker (archived Dec 14, 2021)</a>
+ </p>
</div>
<hr>
<ul class="unstyled tweets" style="margin-top: 30px;">
<h3>What others have to say:</h3>
- <li><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Apache Bloodhound - finally a better Trac. Time to upgrade my defect tracking setup</p>— Vincent Yu (@vyuniverse) <a href="https://twitter.com/vyuniverse/status/330423421945122816";>May 3, 2013</a></blockquote></li>
- <li><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Finally some <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23OSS";>#OSS</a> alternative and competition for <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23JIRA";>#JIRA</a>: Introducing <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23Apache";>#Apache</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23Bloodhound";>#Bloodhound</a> <a href="http://t.co/t9ho5Herru"; title="http://jaxenter.com/apache-bloodhound-a-new-breed-of-issue-tracker-46761.html";>jaxenter.com/apache-bloodho…</a> via @<a href="https://twitter.com/jaxentercom";>jaxentercom</a></p>— Alex Heusingfeld (@goldstift) <a href="https://twitter.com/goldstift/status/322403054655766528";>April 11, 2013</a></blockquote></li>
- <li><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Awesome product management software from Apache Bloodhound without the costs of Jira <a href="http://t.co/WluVAe6fC8"; title="http://lnkd.in/36BgYh";>lnkd.in/36BgYh</a></p>— Calum Miller (@cpamiller) <a href="https://twitter.com/cpamiller/status/321205151182491648";>April 8, 2013</a></blockquote></li>
- <li><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Apache Bloodhound improves upon Trac to enable multiple products. There goes my only reason for using Redmine. <a href="https://t.co/2bAK6LM5"; title="https://issues.apache.org/bloodhound/";>issues.apache.org/bloodhound/</a></p>— Karl Ostendorf (@chicagokarl) <a href="https://twitter.com/chicagokarl/status/247656964212019201";>September 17, 2012</a></blockquote></li>
- <li>More tweets can be seen in <a href="https://twitter.com/apbloodhound/favorites";>@ApBloodhound's favourites</a> and an <a href="https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%22apache%20bloodhound%22%20OR%20%22bloodhound.apache.org%22%20OR%20%22issues.apache.org%2Fbloodhound%22%20OR%20%23apbh&src=typd";>Apache Bloodhound search</a>.</li>
+ <li>
+ <blockquote class="twitter-tweet">
+ <p>Apache Bloodhound - finally a better Trac. Time to upgrade my defect tracking setup</p>
+ — Vincent Yu (@vyuniverse) <a href="https://twitter.com/vyuniverse/status/330423421945122816";>May 3, 2013</a>
+ </blockquote>
+ </li>
+ <li>
+ <blockquote class="twitter-tweet">
+ <p>Finally some <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23OSS";>#OSS</a> alternative and competition for <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23JIRA";>#JIRA</a>: Introducing <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23Apache";>#Apache</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23Bloodhound";>#Bloodhound</a> <a href="http://t.co/t9ho5Herru"; title="http://jaxenter.com/apache-bloodhound-a-new-breed-of-issue-tracker-46761.html";>jaxenter.com/apache-bloodho…</a> via @<a href="https://twitter.com/jaxentercom";>jaxentercom</a></p>
+ — Alex Heusingfeld (@goldstift) <a href="https://twitter.com/goldstift/status/322403054655766528";>April 11, 2013</a>
+ </blockquote>
+ </li>
+ <li>
+ <blockquote class="twitter-tweet">
+ <p>Awesome product management software from Apache Bloodhound without the costs of Jira <a href="http://t.co/WluVAe6fC8"; title="http://lnkd.in/36BgYh";>lnkd.in/36BgYh</a></p>
+ — Calum Miller (@cpamiller) <a href="https://twitter.com/cpamiller/status/321205151182491648";>April 8, 2013</a>
+ </blockquote>
+ </li>
+ <li>
+ <blockquote class="twitter-tweet">
+ <p>Apache Bloodhound improves upon Trac to enable multiple products. There goes my only reason for using Redmine. <a href="https://t.co/2bAK6LM5"; title="https://issues.apache.org/bloodhound/";>issues.apache.org/bloodhound/</a></p>
+ — Karl Ostendorf (@chicagokarl) <a href="https://twitter.com/chicagokarl/status/247656964212019201";>September 17, 2012</a>
+ </blockquote>
+ </li>
+ <li>More tweets can be seen in <a href="https://twitter.com/apbloodhound/favorites";>@ApBloodhound's favourites</a> and an <a href="https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%22apache%20bloodhound%22%20OR%20%22bloodhound.apache.org%22%20OR%20%22issues.apache.org%2Fbloodhound%22%20OR%20%23apbh&src=typd";>Apache Bloodhound search</a>.
+ </li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
