> I'm about to need to harry test for the paging across tombstone work for > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-18424 (that's where my own > overlapping fuzzing came in). In the process, I'll see if I can't distill > something really simple along the lines of how React approaches it > (https://react.dev/learn).
We can pick that up as an example, sure. On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 4:53 PM, Josh McKenzie wrote: >> I have submitted a proposal to Cassandra Summit for a 4-hour Harry workshop, > I'm about to need to harry test for the paging across tombstone work for > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-18424 (that's where my own > overlapping fuzzing came in). In the process, I'll see if I can't distill > something really simple along the lines of how React approaches it > (https://react.dev/learn). > > Ideally we'd be able to get something together that's a high level "In the > next 15 minutes, you will know and understand A-G and have access to N% of > the power of harry" kind of offer. > > Honestly, there's a *lot* in our ecosystem where we could benefit from taking > a page from their book in terms of onboarding and getting started IMO. > > On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Alex Petrov wrote: >> > I wonder if a mini-onboarding session would be good as a community session >> > - go over Harry, how to run it, how to add a test? Would that be the >> > right venue? I just would like to see how we can not only plug it in to >> > regular CI but get everyone that wants to add a test be able to know how >> > to get started with it. >> >> I have submitted a proposal to Cassandra Summit for a 4-hour Harry workshop, >> but unfortunately it got declined. Goes without saying, we can still do it >> online, time and resources permitting. But again, I do not think it should >> be barring us from making Harry a part of the codebase, as it already is. In >> fact, we can be iterating on the development quicker having it in-tree. >> >> We could go over some interesting examples such as testing 2i (SAI), >> modelling Group By tests, or testing repair. If there is enough appetite and >> collaboration in the community, I will see if we can pull something like >> that together. Input on _what_ you would like to see / hear / tested is also >> appreciated. Harry was developed out of a strong need for large-scale >> testing, which also has informed many of its APIs, but we can make it easier >> to access for interactive testing / unit tests. We have been doing a lot of >> that with Transactional Metadata, too. >> >> > I'll hold off on this until Alex Petrov chimes in. @Alex -> got any >> > thoughts here? >> >> Yes, sorry for not responding on this thread earlier. I can not understate >> how excited I am about this, and how important I think this is. Time >> constraints are somehow hard to overcome, but I hope the results brought by >> TCM will make it all worth it. >> >> On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 4:23 PM, Alex Petrov wrote: >>> I think pulling Harry into the tree will make adoption easier for the >>> folks. I have been a bit swamped with Transactional Metadata work, but I >>> wanted to make some of the things we were using for testing TCM available >>> outside of TCM branch. This includes a bunch of helper methods to perform >>> operations on the clusters, data generation, and more useful stuff. Of >>> course, the question always remains about how much time I want to spend >>> porting it all to Gossip, but I think we can find a reasonable compromise. >>> >>> I would not set this improvement as a prerequisite to pulling Harry into >>> the main branch, but rather interpret it as a commitment from myself to >>> take community input and make it more approachable by the day. >>> >>> On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 2:44 PM, Josh McKenzie wrote: >>>>> importantly it’s a million times better than the dtest-api process - >>>>> which stymies development due to the friction. >>>> This is my major concern. >>>> >>>> What prompted this thread was harry being external to the core codebase >>>> and the lack of adoption and usage of it having led to atrophy of certain >>>> aspects of it, which then led to redundant implementation of some fuzz >>>> testing and lost time. >>>> >>>> We'd all be better served to have this closer to the main codebase as a >>>> forcing function to smooth out the rough edges, integrate it, and make it >>>> a collective artifact and first class citizen IMO. >>>> >>>> I have similar opinions about the dtest-api. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 4:05 AM, Benedict wrote: >>>>> >>>>> It’s not without hiccups, and I’m sure we have more to learn. But it >>>>> mostly just works, and importantly it’s a million times better than the >>>>> dtest-api process - which stymies development due to the friction. >>>>> >>>>>> On 24 May 2023, at 08:39, Mick Semb Wever <m...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> WRT git submodules and CASSANDRA-18204, are we happy with how it is >>>>>> working for accord ? >>>>>> >>>>>> The time spent on getting that running has been a fair few hours, where >>>>>> we could have cut many manual module releases in that time. >>>>>> >>>>>> David and folks working on accord ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, 23 May 2023 at 20:09, Josh McKenzie <jmcken...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>>>> __ >>>>>>> I'll hold off on this until Alex Petrov chimes in. @Alex -> got any >>>>>>> thoughts here? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, May 16, 2023, at 5:17 PM, Jeremy Hanna wrote: >>>>>>>> I think it would be great to onboard Harry more officially into the >>>>>>>> project. However it would be nice to perhaps do some sanity checking >>>>>>>> outside of Apple folks to see how approachable it is. That is, can >>>>>>>> someone take it and just run it with the current readme without any >>>>>>>> additional context? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wonder if a mini-onboarding session would be good as a community >>>>>>>> session - go over Harry, how to run it, how to add a test? Would that >>>>>>>> be the right venue? I just would like to see how we can not only plug >>>>>>>> it in to regular CI but get everyone that wants to add a test be able >>>>>>>> to know how to get started with it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jeremy >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 16, 2023, at 1:34 PM, Abe Ratnofsky <a...@aber.io> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just to make sure I'm understanding the details, this would mean >>>>>>>>> apache/cassandra-harry maintains its status as a separate repository, >>>>>>>>> apache/cassandra references it as a submodule, and clones and builds >>>>>>>>> Harry locally, rather than pulling a released JAR. We can then >>>>>>>>> reference Harry as a library without maintaining public artifacts for >>>>>>>>> it. Is that in line with what you're thinking? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > I'd also like to see us get a Harry run integrated as part of our >>>>>>>>> > pre-commit CI >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm a strong supporter of this, of course. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On May 16, 2023, at 11:03 AM, Josh McKenzie <jmcken...@apache.org> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Similar to what we've done with accord in >>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-18204, I'd like to >>>>>>>>>> discuss bringing cassandra-harry in-tree as a submodule. repo link: >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/cassandra-harry >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Given the value it's brought to the project's stabilization efforts >>>>>>>>>> and the movement of other things in the ecosystem to being more >>>>>>>>>> integrated (accord, build-scripts >>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-18133), I think >>>>>>>>>> having the testing framework better localized and integrated would >>>>>>>>>> be a net benefit for adoption, awareness, maintenance, and tighter >>>>>>>>>> workflows as we troubleshoot future failures it surfaces. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'd also like to see us get a Harry run integrated as part of our >>>>>>>>>> pre-commit CI (a 5 minute simple soak test for instance) and having >>>>>>>>>> that local in this fashion should make that a cleaner integration as >>>>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thoughts? >>>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >
