Hi Rafael,
I think as long as we (the CloudStack Community) have the final say on how we
fill our allotted slots in the CloudStack track of ApacheCon in Montreal, then
it’s perfectly fine for us to leverage Apache’s normal review process to gather
all the feedback from the larger Apache Community.
As you say, we could wait for the feedback to come in via that mechanism and
then, as per Will’s earlier comments, we could advertise on our users@ and dev@
mailing lists when we plan to get together for a call and make final decisions
on the CFP.
Is that, in fact, what you were thinking, Rafael?
Talk to you soon,
Mike
On 4/4/18, 2:58 PM, "Rafael Weingärtner" <rafaelweingart...@gmail.com> wrote:
I think everybody that “raised their hands here” already signed up to
review.
Mike, what about if we only gathered the reviews from Apache main review
system, and then we use that to decide which presentations will get in
CloudStack tracks? Then, we reduce the work on our side (we also remove
bias…). I do believe that the review from other peers from Apache community
(even the one outside from our small community) will be fair and technical
(meaning, without passion and or favoritism).
Having said that, I think we only need a small group of PMCs to gather the
results and out of the best ranked proposals, we pick the ones to our
tracks.
What do you (Mike) and others think?
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 5:07 PM, Tutkowski, Mike <mike.tutkow...@netapp.com>
wrote:
> Hi Ron,
>
> I don’t actually have insight into how many people have currently signed
> up online to be CFP reviewers for ApacheCon. At present, I’m only aware of
> those who have responded to this e-mail chain.
>
> We should be able to find out more in the coming weeks. We’re still quite
> early in the process.
>
> Thanks for your feedback,
> Mike
>
> On 4/1/18, 9:18 AM, "Ron Wheeler" <rwhee...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
>
> How many people have signed up to be reviewers?
>
> I don't think that scheduling is part of the review process and that
> can
> be done by the person/team "organizing" ApacheCon on behalf of the
PMC.
>
> To me review is looking at content for
> - relevance
> - quality of the presentations (suggest fixes to content, English,
> graphics, etc.)
> This should result in a consensus score
> - Perfect - ready for prime time
> - Needs minor changes as documented by the reviewers
> - Great topic but needs more work - perhaps a reviewer could volunteer
> to work with the presenter to get it ready if chosen
> - Not recommended for topic or content reasons
>
> The reviewers could also make non-binding recommendations about the
> balance between topics - marketing(why Cloudstack),
> Operations/implementation, Technical details, Roadmap, etc. based on
> what they have seen.
>
> This should be used by the organizers to make the choices and organize
> the program.
> The organizers have the final say on the choice of presentations and
> schedule
>
> Reviewers are there to help the process not control it.
>
> I would be worried that you do not have enough reviewers rather than
> too
> many.
> Then the work falls on the PMC and organizers.
>
> When planning meetings, I would recommend that you clearly separate
the
> roles and only invite the reviewers to the meetings about review. Get
> the list of presentation to present to the reviewers and decide if
> there
> are any instructions that you want to give to reviewers.
> I would recommend that you keep the organizing group small. Membership
> should be set by the PMC and should be people that are committed to
the
> ApacheCon project and have the time. The committee can request help
for
> specific tasks from others in the community who are not on the
> committee.
>
> I would also recommend that organizers do not do reviews. They should
> read the finalists but if they do reviews, there may be a suggestion
of
> favouring presentations that they reviewed. It also ensures that the
> organizers are not getting heat from rejected presenters - "it is the
> reviewers fault you did not get selected".
>
> My advice is to get as many reviewers as you can so that no one is
> essential and each reviewer has a limited number of presentations to
> review but each presentation gets reviewed by multiple people. Also
> bear
> in mind that not all reviewers have the same ability to review each
> presentation.
> Reviews should be anonymous and only the summary comments given to the
> presenter. Reviewers of a presentation should be able to discuss the
> presentation during the review to make sure that reviewers do not feel
> isolated or get lost when they hit content that they don't understand
> fully.
>
>
>
> Ron
>
>
> On 01/04/2018 12:20 AM, Tutkowski, Mike wrote:
> > Thanks for the feedback, Will!
> >
> > I agree with the approach you outlined.
> >
> > Thanks for being so involved in the process! Let’s chat with Giles
> once he’s back to see if we can get your questions answered.
> >
> >> On Mar 31, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> In the past the committee was chosen as a relatively small group in
> order
> >> to make it easier to manage feedback. In order to make it fair to
> everyone
> >> in the community, I would suggest that instead of doing it with a
> small
> >> group, we do it out in the open on a scheduled call.
> >>
> >> We will have to get a list of the talks that are CloudStack
> specific from
> >> ApacheCon, but that should be possible.
> >>
> >> Once we have the talks selected, then a smaller number of us can
> work on
> >> setting up the actual ordering and the details.
> >>
> >> I have been quite involved so far. Giles and I have been
> organizing the
> >> sponsors, website and dealing with ApacheCon so far. Obviously,
> Mike is
> >> also working on this as well.
> >>
> >> I think we are headed in the right direction on this.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Will
> >>
> >> On Mar 31, 2018 11:49 PM, "Tutkowski, Mike" <
> mike.tutkow...@netapp.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Ron,
> >>
> >> I am definitely open to working this however makes the most sense.
> >>
> >> It looks like Will’s e-mail indicates that the process I suggested
> has been
> >> followed in the past (which is how I recall, as well).
> >>
> >> Let’s make sure I understood Will correctly.
> >>
> >> Will – Are you, in fact, indicating that what I was suggesting is
> how we
> >> have reviewed the CFP in the past? If so, are you able to address
> Ron’s
> >> concerns?
> >>
> >> Also, Will – I am not sure about a hackathon. Let’s chat with Giles
> once
> >> he’s back from vacation since he’s been the most involved with
> organizing
> >> the CloudStack track within ApacheCon.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3/31/18, 9:00 PM, "Ron Wheeler" <rwhee...@artifact-software.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I am not sure about your concern in that case.
> >> I am not sure why people not interested in Cloudstack would
> volunteer as
> >> reviewers and want to pick bad presentations.
> >>
> >> I would be more worried that there are not enough good
> presentations
> >> proposed rather than some meritorious presentation will get
> rejected due
> >> to "outsiders" voting it down in favour of less useful
> presentations.
> >>
> >> It may be tricky to get balance if that means taking "bad"
> proposals
> >> that can not be fixed that cover topics that are in areas that
> are not
> >> otherwise covered at the expense of great presentations that
> are in
> >> areas with many choices.
> >>
> >> We should wait to see how many presentations have to be
> rejected and the
> >> number of reviewers before getting too exercised over the
> loyalty of
> >> reviewers.
> >>
> >> Getting more reviewers is likely the most effective way to see
> that a
> >> wider range of topics is covered.
> >>
> >> Ron
> >>
> >>> On 31/03/2018 7:15 PM, Tutkowski, Mike wrote:
> >>> Hi Ron,
> >>>
> >>> From what I understand, the CloudStack proposals will be mixed in
> >> with all of the ApacheCon proposals.
> >>> In the past when I’ve participated in these CloudStack panels to
> >> review proposals, we had to compare each proposal against the
> others to
> >> arrive at a balance of topics (i.e. not all networking focused, not
> all
> >> XenServer focused, etc.) and to suggest improvements for proposals
> that we
> >> did not accept for other reasons.
> >>> From what I understand (but Giles can comment further on this),
we
> >> have a track at ApacheCon and will need to fill it with X number of
> >> presentations. To do this, it seems like a CloudStack-focused panel
> would
> >> be a good approach, but I am definitely open to another approach.
> We don’t
> >> want to exclude anyone (in or out of the CloudStack Community) who
> might
> >> like to provide input. Anyone who is interested would, of course,
> be free
> >> to join us in combing through the proposals.
> >>> We don’t need to get started on this right away. The CFP just
> closed
> >> yesterday. Let’s wait for feedback from Giles (who is currently on
> >> vacation) and go from there.
> >>> Thanks!
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> On 3/31/18, 6:59 AM, "Ron Wheeler" <rwhee...@artifact-software.com
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>> Is this a real concern?
> >>> Why would a large number of Apache contributors who are not
> >> interested
> >>> in Cloudstack (enough to outvote those "part of the
Cloudstack
> >>> community") get involved as reviewers
> >>>
> >>> Reviewing involves some commitment of time so I am hard
> pressed
> >> to guess
> >>> why some Apache contributor would volunteer to do the work in
> >> order to
> >>> veto a presentation that they have not yet seen or have no
> >> interest in
> >>> seeing.
> >>>
> >>> Are we guaranteed a fixed number of hours of presentations or
> is
> >> the
> >>> review process part of the allocation of overall time?
> >>>
> >>> On what basis can some group veto a presentation?
> >>> That would seem to be a very strong action and I would hope
> that
> >> it
> >>> requires a strong reason.
> >>>
> >>> OTOH if a large??? number of Apache contributors (regardless
> of
> >> their
> >>> affiliation) say that a presentation has serious issues or
> very
> >> limited
> >>> interest, that would seem to be a red flag that the
> presentation
> >>> requires improvement or needs to be dropped in favour of
> another
> >>> Cloudstack presentation, if it can not be fixed.
> >>>
> >>> We should also be aware that this is an opportunity to
> "market"
> >>> Cloudstack to the broader Apache community.
> >>> Outside reviewers might have valuable input into how
> >> presentations can
> >>> attract new adopters or be clearer to the broader DevOps
> >> community.
> >>> We also need to remember that we do have an active community
> and
> >> other
> >>> opportunities during the year to present presentations that
do
> >> not get
> >>> selected for this conference.
> >>>
> >>> If their is a real fear that a lot of "outsiders" are going
to
> >> disrupt
> >>> the review process, a more reasonable response would seem to
> be
> >> to get
> >>> more reviewers from the community.
> >>>
> >>> I have volunteered already.
> >>>
> >>> Ron
> >>>
> >>>> On 30/03/2018 11:11 PM, Tutkowski, Mike wrote:
> >>>> Hi Rafael,
> >>>>
> >>>> It’s a little bit tricky in our particular situation. Allow me
> >> to explain:
> >>>> As you are likely aware, the CloudStack Collaboration
> >> Conference will be held as a track in the larger ApacheCon
> conference in
> >> Montreal this coming September.
> >>>> It is true, as you say, that anyone who wishes to do so can
> >> contribute to reviewing the CFP for ApacheCon.
> >>>> What is a bit of a concern, however, is that we might get
> >> certain CloudStack CFP proposals vetoed by people who are not, per
> se, a
> >> part of our community.
> >>>> That being the case, I have contacted the organizers for
> >> ApacheCon to see if there is some way we can section off the
> CloudStack CFP
> >> from the larger ApacheCon CFP for review purposes.
> >>>> Assuming we can do this, the panel that I am proposing here
> >> would handle this review task.
> >>>> I hope that helps clarify the situation.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks!
> >>>> Mike
> >>>>
> >>>> On 3/30/18, 8:38 AM, "Rafael Weingärtner" <
> >> rafaelweingart...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Are we going to have a separated review process?
> >>>>
> >>>> I thought anybody could go here [1] and apply for a
> >> reviewer position and
> >>>> start reviewing. Well, that is what I did. I have already
> >> reviewed some
> >>>> CloudStack proposals (of course I did not review mines).
> >> After asking to
> >>>> review presentations, Rich has giving me access to the
> >> system. I thought
> >>>> everybody interest in helping was going to do the same.
> >>>>
> >>>> [1]
> >> https://cfp.apachecon.com/conference.html?apachecon-
> north-america-2018
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 4:05 AM, Swen - swen.io <
> >> m...@swen.io> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Mike,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> congrats!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I can help sort through presentations.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>> Swen
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >>>>> Von: Tutkowski, Mike [mailto:mike.tutkow...@netapp.com]
> >>>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. März 2018 21:40
> >>>>> An: dev@cloudstack.apache.org;
> >> us...@cloudstack.apache.org
> >>>>> Betreff: Committee to Sort through CCC Presentation
> >> Submissions
> >>>>> Hi everyone,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As you may be aware, this coming September in Montreal,
> >> the CloudStack
> >>>>> Community will be hosting the CloudStack Collaboration
> >> Conference:
> >>>>> http://ca.cloudstackcollab.org/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Even though the event is six months away, we are on a
> >> tight schedule with
> >>>>> regards to the Call For Participation (CFP):
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.apachecon.com/acna18/schedule.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you are interested in submitting a talk, please do
> >> so before March 30th.
> >>>>> That being said, as usual, we will have need of a small
> >> committee to sort
> >>>>> through these presentation submissions.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you are interested in helping out in this process,
> >> please reply to this
> >>>>> message.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>> Mike
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Rafael Weingärtner
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
>
> --
> Ron Wheeler
> President
> Artifact Software Inc
> email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com
> skype: ronaldmwheeler
> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>
>
>
>
--
Rafael Weingärtner
