To respond to your questions: On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 10:06 AM Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com> wrote: > > May I be the contrary voice and ask why?
I put two points of justification in the PR, but to repeat here: 1. These automated notices are redundant if somebody is already watching the relevant notices for the repo on GitHub. So, sending these to another list allows users more flexibility in receiving them or not, and whether they prefer to receive them as an email or as a notice directly from watching the repo in GitHub. 2. These automated notices spam the dev@ list which many more people follow for the human discussions here on community development across the ASF. Sending them to another list ensures the dev@ list is reserved for human-to-human conversations, and keeps people from unsubscribing and connected to the community due to frustration with spam. > Why do we not want to know what's being committed in our name? I don't understand this question. This doesn't prevent anybody from watching any of the activity. It just gives more flexibility on how they are able to follow it, removing redundant notifications for people following the repos on GitHub, and providing a mechanism that is equivalent to today if people prefer to follow a mailing list. > It's not like this list gets a lot of traffic, True, but that's probably why there are as many subscribers as there are. The quantity is low, but the quality is very high. With the automated emails landing here, the quality is lowered, and the quantity is increased. The degree to which this has happened may be in question, but the fact that automated emails are of lower quality than human-written emails shouldn't be in question. These make it more likely people will unsubscribe, as more activity on the list is less relevant to their participation. > and those very emails that you want to banish to another > list were what reminded me that we have PRs that have been languishing > for several months. "Banish" seems harsh. I would characterize it as "organize". I don't think email activity is the cause of languishing PRs. By organizing these on a separate list, all options you had before to watch for these and react to them will still be available to you. You can still watch notifications on GitHub directly, or follow the other list. But, it lowers the bar for other people (especially non-committers who follow the list) to organize the lists they follow. > > Granted, if this is enacted, I'll just filter that email to the same > folder, but I don't think that this solves a real problem, and, indeed, > that it will further reduce engagement. I don't think it has an impact on engagement, because no notifications are being removed. Only organized. Keep in mind that many people following ComDev are not committers, and follow this list for the discussions of community development at the ASF, and *not* for maintaining ComDev's website or other code (if there is any). And, because I know somebody will raise this point: email can be filtered both ways. However, I think it's easier for committers to follow two lists (assuming they prefer the email notifications rather than the notifications in GitHub's UI in the first place), than it is for casual followers interested in ComDev discussions on this list to set up email filters to suppress the notifications. I'd prefer to cater to the casual followers, to lower the bar to contributing. Furthermore, I also follow the INFRA list, and this GitBox spam seems to be a frequent source of frustration for many casual contributors since projects were moved to GitBox from the old git-wip, many submitting requests for INFRA to help them "unsubscribe" from it, and many uncertain how they are getting it in the first place. Yet, I never see any complaints that users have to subscribe to a second list to get jira@, issues@, or notifications@ messages in their projects. So, I think it makes sense to put these notifications in a separate list, making them "OPT-IN", rather than "OPT-OUT". Also, remember, even for users who *want* to follow this activity, they don't necessarily want these messages, because many are already following the activity on GitHub. "OPT-OUT" makes so much more sense here. > > On 7/6/21 9:26 AM, Christopher wrote: > > Hi ComDev, > > > > I'm probably not the only one who has noticed the flurry of emails on > > the main dev@community.apache.org due to GitHub activity on the > > comdev-site repo. > > > > To help deal with that, I created a pull request: > > https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/64 > > For more information, see > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INFRA/git+-+.asf.yaml+features#Git.asf.yamlfeatures-Notificationsettingsforrepositories > > > > The PMC must create a new notificati...@community.apache.org list for > > this change, if they decide to accept my proposed change. > > > > Thanks! > > > > - Christopher > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > > > -- > Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com > @rbowen --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
