I'm claiming 2nd person added!

On 17 Jan 2014, at 1:28 PM, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote:

> Psst. A little birdy tells me that if you ask nicely, the infra folks
> will add you to the Apache GitHub org too, so you can show off your
> Apache affiliation. I was the first person added. Because I may have
> been the first to ask. ;)
> 
> On 17 January 2014 11:56, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Awesome, thanks Paul.
>> 
>> Note to all devs: if you want your contributions to CouchDB to show up
>> on your GitHub profile, you have to star each of the repositories.
>> (That's just how GitHub mechanics work for repo mirrors.)
>> 
>> You can find them all here:
>> 
>> https://github.com/apache
>> 
>> On 17 January 2014 00:00, Paul Davis <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> New repos are up: https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?s=couchdb
>>> 
>>> I'm gonna go through and initialize them with history from master or
>>> one of the bigcouch and rcouch branches as appropriate.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Paul Davis <[email protected]> 
>>> wrote:
>>>> Infrastructure ticket opened: 
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7203
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Jan Lehnardt <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 16 Jan 2014, at 20:42 , Paul Davis <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> It doesn't appear that this is objectionable to anyone. Does anyone
>>>>>> have an objection to us having infra/me create these repos to use for
>>>>>> the bigcouch/rcouch merge work? This won't affect master or releases
>>>>>> until those merges finish.
>>>>> 
>>>>> no objections.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jan
>>>>> --
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Paul J Davis
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2014, at 8:37 PM, Benoit Chesneau <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 12:22 AM, Paul Davis 
>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I've recently been having discussions about how to handle the
>>>>>>>>> repository configuration for various bits of CouchDB post-merge. The
>>>>>>>>> work that Benoit has been doing on the rcouch merge branch have also
>>>>>>>>> touched on this topic as well.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The background for those unfamiliar is that the standard operating
>>>>>>>>> procedure for Erlang is to have a single Erlang application per
>>>>>>>>> repository and then rely on rebar to fetch each dependency.
>>>>>>>>> Traditionally in CouchDB land we've always just included the source to
>>>>>>>>> all applications in a single monolithic repository and periodically
>>>>>>>>> reimport changes from upstream dependencies.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Recently rcouch changed from the monolithic repository to use external
>>>>>>>>> repositories for some dependencies. Originally the BigCouch used an
>>>>>>>>> even more federated scheme that had each Erlang application in an
>>>>>>>>> external repository (and the core couch Erlang application was in the
>>>>>>>>> root repository). When Bob Newson and I did the initial hacking on the
>>>>>>>>> BigCouch merge we pulled those external dependencies into the root
>>>>>>>>> repository reverting back to the large monolithic approach.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> After trying to deal with the merge and contemplating how various
>>>>>>>>> Erlang release things might work it's become fairly apparent that the
>>>>>>>>> monolithic approach is a bit constrictive. For instance, part of
>>>>>>>>> rebar's versioning abilities lets you tag repositories to generate
>>>>>>>>> versions rather than manually updating versions in source files.
>>>>>>>>> Another thing I've found on other projects is that having each
>>>>>>>>> application in a separate repository requires developers to think a
>>>>>>>>> bit more detailed about the public internal interfaces used through
>>>>>>>>> out the system. We've done some work to this extent already with
>>>>>>>>> separating source directories but forcing commits to multiple
>>>>>>>>> repositories shoots up a big red flag that maybe there's a high level
>>>>>>>>> of coupling between two bits of code.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Other benefits of having the multiple repository setup is that its
>>>>>>>>> possible that this lends itself to being integrated with the proposed
>>>>>>>>> plugin system. It'd be fairly trivial to have a script that went and
>>>>>>>>> fetched plugins that aren't developed at Apache (as a ./configure time
>>>>>>>>> switch type of thing). Having a system like this would also allow us
>>>>>>>>> to have groups focused on particular bits of development not have to
>>>>>>>>> concern themselves with the unrelated parts of the system.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Given all that, I'd like to propose that we move to having a
>>>>>>>>> repository for each application/dependency that we use to build
>>>>>>>>> CouchDB. Each repository would be hosted on ASF infra and mirrored to
>>>>>>>>> GitHub as expected. This means that we could have the root repository
>>>>>>>>> be a simple repo that contains packaging/release/build stuff that
>>>>>>>>> would enable lots of the ideas offered on configurable types of
>>>>>>>>> release generation. I've included an initial list of repositories at
>>>>>>>>> the end of this email. Its basically just the apps that have been
>>>>>>>>> split out in either rcouch or bigcouch plus a few other bits from
>>>>>>>>> CouchDB master.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I would also point out that even though our main repo would need to
>>>>>>>>> fetch other dependencies from the internet to build the final output,
>>>>>>>>> we fully intend that our release tarballs would *not* have this
>>>>>>>>> requirement. Ie, when we go to cut a release part of the process the
>>>>>>>>> RM would run would be to pull all of those dependencies before
>>>>>>>>> creating a tarball that would be wholly self contained. Given an
>>>>>>>>> apache-couchdb-x.y.z.tar.gz release file, there won't be a requirement
>>>>>>>>> to have access to the ASF git repos.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I'm not entirely sure how controversial this is for anyone. For the
>>>>>>>>> most part the reactions I remember hearing were more concerned on
>>>>>>>>> whether the infrastructure team would allow us to use this sort of
>>>>>>>>> configuration. I looked yesterday and asked and apparently its
>>>>>>>>> something we can request but as always we'll want to verify again if
>>>>>>>>> we have consensus to move in this direction.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Anyone have comments or flames? Right now I'm just interested in
>>>>>>>>> feeling out what sort of (lack of?) consensus there is on such a
>>>>>>>>> change. If there's general consensus I'd think we'd do a vote in a
>>>>>>>>> couple weeks and if that passes then start on down this road for the
>>>>>>>>> two merge projects and then it would become part of master once those
>>>>>>>>> land (as opposed to doing this to master and then attempting to merge
>>>>>>>>> rcouch/bigcouch onto that somehow).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This is a quick pass at listing what extra repositories I'd have
>>>>>>>>> created. Some of these applications only exist in the bigcouch and/or
>>>>>>>>> rcouch branches so that's where the unfamiliar application names are
>>>>>>>>> from. I'd also point out that the documentation and fauxton things are
>>>>>>>>> just on a whim in that we could decouple that development from the
>>>>>>>>> erlang development. I can see arguments for an against those. I'm much
>>>>>>>>> less concerned on that aspect than the Erlang parts that are directly
>>>>>>>>> affected by rebar/Erlang conventions.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  chttpd
>>>>>>>>>  config
>>>>>>>>>  couch
>>>>>>>>>  couch_collate
>>>>>>>>>  couch_dbupdates
>>>>>>>>>  couch_httpd
>>>>>>>>>  couch_index
>>>>>>>>>  couch_mrview
>>>>>>>>>  couch_plugins
>>>>>>>>>  couch_replicator
>>>>>>>>>  documentation
>>>>>>>>>  ddoc_cache
>>>>>>>>>  ets_lru
>>>>>>>>>  fabric
>>>>>>>>>  fauxton
>>>>>>>>>  ibrowse
>>>>>>>>>  jiffy
>>>>>>>>>  mem3
>>>>>>>>>  mochiweb
>>>>>>>>>  oauth
>>>>>>>>>  rebar
>>>>>>>>>  rexi
>>>>>>>>>  snappy
>>>>>>>>>  twig
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I also contemplated this and and I am generally +1 on this. And 
>>>>>>>> definitely
>>>>>>>> +1 to mirror them on the apache git if possible.  I have a couple of
>>>>>>>> comments though.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Initially I also had everything separated in its own source 
>>>>>>>> repository. 1
>>>>>>>> year ago I merged back as one core repo the couchdb erlang 
>>>>>>>> applications and
>>>>>>>> put all the dependencies in the refuge repository or in the refuge CDN 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the spidermonkey and ICU sources.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I merged back as one core repo the couchdb erlang applications because 
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> were a little too much dependant. Especially couch_httpd, couch_index 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> couch_mrview. These applications are not yet enough by themselves.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Imo if we split everything in  their own apps, then we should make sure
>>>>>>>> that couch_httpd can be used without couch_index and couch_mrview 
>>>>>>>> (which
>>>>>>>> means that "all_docs" is available in couch_httpd). Also we should be 
>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>> to just launch couch without any of the above. And probably without the
>>>>>>>> need of an ini. The couch_query_server module thing is an interesting 
>>>>>>>> case.
>>>>>>>> bigcouch is also introducing `ddoc_cache` which I am not sure why it is
>>>>>>>> provided as a standalone app. Does it means it can be replaced by 
>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>> application eventually? Why not having it simply in the  couch 
>>>>>>>> application?
>>>>>>>> Does it needs to be updated separately?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Also  all our base applications should also be named spaced correctly 
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> they will be strictly identified as erlang modules:  "config" is too
>>>>>>>> generic, "ddoc_cache" too. Others are probably OK.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> There are probably other things that we could provide as apps:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> - couch_daemon,
>>>>>>>> - couch_js
>>>>>>>> - couch_external
>>>>>>>> - couch_stats
>>>>>>>> - couch_compaction_daemon
>>>>>>>> - couch_httpd_proxy
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Anyway again i'm +1 for this move, I really think it's a good idea.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> - benoit
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I agree on most of this. Roughly I see three general points.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> First, deciding on whether some things are external deps is definitely 
>>>>>>> up for discussion. Whether couch_mrview is a different app/repo is not 
>>>>>>> necessarily clear cut. Personally I think I over engineered couch_index 
>>>>>>> which blurs the lines a bit. If I could wave a wand I'd have just 
>>>>>>> couch_mrview and it'd be separate. More importantly I think the 
>>>>>>> separate repos makes these things more apparent. The fact were 
>>>>>>> discussing this sort of architecture thing is suggestive that it's 
>>>>>>> forcing us to think a bit harder.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Second is the aspect of composability. For instance the mrview thing to 
>>>>>>> me is obviously a different repo precisely so a user could import couch 
>>>>>>> (_core?) directly without requiring the spider monkey dependency. The 
>>>>>>> monolithic repo doesn't allow this without some very non-standard 
>>>>>>> tooling.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thirdly, app naming is always a contention. The config name was 
>>>>>>> actually a hot code upgrade concern. We couldn't reuse couch_config 
>>>>>>> directly at the time. And Adam was also hopeful we could the it into a 
>>>>>>> useful non-specific config app.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Fourthly, and related to secondly, we'll also want to look at splitting 
>>>>>>> other apps out as necessary. The ones you listed I think aren't 
>>>>>>> controversial it's just that no one has done it yet. My list was purely 
>>>>>>> what existed so far without attempting to carve things up more. I 
>>>>>>> definitely agree we should carve more in just wanted to cover consensus 
>>>>>>> that carving is the right direction.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Fifthly, I'm done typing on my phone. I'll fill in more thoughts 
>>>>>>> tomorrow.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Noah Slater
>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater

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