Hi Joan and Jan, > Thanks for the feedback. If we were voting I'd treat your response as > a -0. Indeed, part of understanding where another person is coming from > is respect, but respect does not go far enough.
No, that would have been a +0 :) Thanks for both your great explanations and clarifications. I expected sth. like this because I already thought, that I translated the word empathic too simple. But I have to admit, that the German word "Empathie" is not in my daily usage. The Link to the German Wiki Jan posted helped me understand it better. I understand the intention behind using the word empathic and it's fine for me. So I am +1 on using it ... Thanks a lot Cheers Andy On 18 May 2014 20:18, Jan Lehnardt <[email protected]> wrote: > Heya Joan, > > excellent explanation, thank you! > > In addition to your points, from a German native speakers perspective, > „Empathie“ means exactly what we want, in German: > https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathie — The free translation > „Einfühlsamkeit“ includes „fühlen“, which means „to feel“ and I think > that’s the foundation for Andy’s point. I’d say, ignore that particular > potential translation and go with „Empathie“ instead :) > > Best > Jan > -- > > > On 18 May 2014, at 18:53 , Joan Touzet <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Andy, > > > > Thanks for the feedback. If we were voting I'd treat your response as > > a -0. Indeed, part of understanding where another person is coming from > > is respect, but respect does not go far enough. > > > > The word empathetic (or empathic, a spelling variation) appears in many > > of the other upstream codes of conduct. I had a feeling there might be > > some confusion around the word in different languages, which is why I > > placed a reference definition at the bottom of the document. > > > > As an Apache project, we "value community over code." Translating this > > into our code of conduct means that, all other things being equal, we > > should prioritize good interpersonal relationships over good code. Let > > me explain how I see this choice being a net positive to CouchDB. > > > > Empathy differs from sympathy and compassion. It describes a human > > ability to comprehend others through identification with their logical > > and emotional viewpoints. This is especially important to call out in > > an environment like ours, where we are a fully distributed team who > > communicate almost exclusively via the printed word. > > > > We all have a shared goal - improving CouchDB - but we will all have > > different hopes, dreams and expectations about what that means and where > > the project will go. It is critical to recognize another person's > > feelings and argument position when it comes to any sort of discussion > > about the project, whether there is agreement or not. > > > > It is also a community, like most of software development today, where > > there is a statistical abundance of atypical human behaviour. This > > includes but is not limited to individuals who behave along the autistic > > spectrum, those who are are extremely antisocial or narcissistic, or > > have difficulty in the regulation of their own emotional state. For > > these individuals in particular (but not just for them!) empathy is > > challenging. Calling out that it is valued here is a gentle reminder to > > these populations to reinforce acceptable interaction patterns. > > > > This is an inherently subjective matter and cannot be sidelined or > > ignored simply to focus on more cut-and-dry topics like technical code > > reviews. Further, it tends to be a less lawful area, one that is harder > > to systemize, so it requires special consideration and focus, especially > > for those to whom such thought does not come easily. We are also > > acknowledging that people will not act without emotion, especially when > > they are working on a volunteer project they join because of their own > > wants, needs and desires. As developers in this community, it behooves > > us to empathize with users, developers, committers and PMC members prior > > to reacting to them. It explicitly acknowledges our own emotional > > reactions as well as those around us. > > > > I hope this analysis is clear. Empathy, not just respct, is crucial to > > the long-term success of our project. > > > > -Joan > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Andy Wenk" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:27:25 AM > > Subject: Re: Code of Conduct & Diversity Statement draft needs your > feedback! > > > > Hi Joan, > > > > thanks a lot. I have read the post the first time and it is really > awesome. > > It is very clear and I think also non-native English speaking folks can > > understand everything. > > > > The only thing I stumbled a bit upon was "Be empathetic, welcoming, > > friendly and patient:" - here empathetic. The German translation is > > "einfühlsam". I personally would not use this word for a behaviour I > expect > > in a technical project. I would use it in a community where I discuss > very > > personal things like how I can have a better life or how to be a better > > partner. Maybe others have this feeling also. It's a bit too much "power > > flower" for me. > > > > Regarding the endnotes and explanation why this word is used, I would > > change it to > > > > "Be respectful, welcoming, friendly and patient:" > > > > But finally it is NOT a blocker for me also. > > > > I will read everything again later. > > > > Thanks again :) > > > > Cheers > > > > Andy > > > > > > On 18 May 2014 01:19, Joan Touzet <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Hello everyone, > >> > >> The draft CoC and diversity statement have been published at: > >> > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=41812010 > >> > >> The wiki is a bit slow today so if it doesn't load the first time, hit > >> reload and be patient. > >> > >> Please take the time to review this and post comments here on the dev > >> ML. > >> > >> Outstanding items (2 and 3 are specifically for the PMC): > >> > >> 1. Create expanded CoC for conferences/events > >> 2. Determine appropriate venue and scope for diversity ML > >> 3. Determine appropriate private reporting compliance mechanism > >> > >> -Joan > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Andy Wenk > > Hamburg - Germany > > RockIt! > > > > GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588 > > > > https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc > > -- Andy Wenk Hamburg - Germany RockIt! http://www.couchdb-buch.de http://www.pg-praxisbuch.de GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
