Hi Alex, all,
Alex Thurgood wrote:
Frank Peters a écrit :
Hi Frank,
- Switching languages in the wiki should be an easy thing
provided we agree on one common schema:
o the localized pages sit in a defined hierarchy so URLs
to switch languages are easily generated automatically
o the localized pages need to have the same names. With the
new MW version (which we currently test and hopefully
implement soon) it will be possible to still use localized
*titles* to show up. Just the URL is the same (except for
the language identifier).
That's about all we need. If we implement a language bar
as template a user would be able to
o switch to another language with one click
o instantly see if a localization is available or not, and if
not, start localizing right away
o add languages easily by just adding them to the template
I personally agree with this approach. It makes for something very
systematic, simple and user friendly. If I want to see something in EN,
FR, DE, or ES or JP or ZH all I'd have to do is switch those letters
in the URL to get the corresponding (or not yet translated) document.
I agree also with you and Franck, and I think the wiki is a good tools
for our documentation purpose.
I'll see to draft something and send it out to NLC for
discussion after I returned (I guess I promised that
several times before, bear with me...)
Well there's a discussion ongoing in the French NLC doc project, because
as you can imagine, following a schema that you have outlined here would
require us to change a lot. Unfortunately, there appears to be no
general consensus as yet.
Yes, and we have to get to a concensus quite quick now, because more and
more link are pointing to the wiki in the OLH.
One of the fears is that a French lambda user, who couldn't care less
about docs in other languages, would find themselves faced with lots of
links leading nowhere, or to a document in English only, and thus would
lose interest in the doc site as a valuable source of information. While
I don't share this fear, I can understand it. I imagine that it could
be very frustrating indeed.
The issue is also that, if you're looking for help pressing F1 in the
product, it's because you need it right now for the task you're doing.
It's different than going to the documentation site because you want to
learn about a fonctionnality or a task. You'll be less frustrated if you
find only English help in the last case.
Another point made was that such a schema would automatically make all
our docs redundant overnight, since we would be forced to rewrite
everything to conform to a given baseline documentation, no doubt
written in English. I tend to disagree here too. I think that the whole
point of setting up a system like the wiki for the doc project is to
allow for creativity from the various language groups to become visible
in a single place, thereby furthering exchanges with other groups and
stimulating people to translate the work of others. It recognizes that
each language culture has its specificities, including the way in which
computer software is used. For example, in Europe, we have different
constraints for billing and invoicing (European Directives) than those
used in the US (and no doubt elsewhere). This means that any
documentation about say, the report generator, or Base module, that
expounds on a billing system, would have to be adapted to suit each
country's or region's own requirements. The French NLC doc project has
created some general user documentation, of course, but some of it also
reflects the way French people think in general, or are taught to think
in school ("cartesian" thinking). This tends to display itself more in
the way the documentation is written, than in actual content. I remember
one of my former French bosses telling me that he couldn't understand
how my thought processes worked because I wasn't "cartesian" enough, yet
I came to much the same conclusions in my writings as he did :-) It also
makes for a bit of a nightmare when you have to translate things from
French to English, and I've been doing this now for nearly 20 years !!!
Thanks for pointing that again Alex :) I don't think that we should
rewrite everything just because it exists in English and we have quite
the same in French. I think that this is up to the NLC documentation
teams to evaluate what is relevant to translate, to rewrite or to adapt.
The difficulty is to stay in harmony with the main documentation site
and the links... Plus the new users forum will provide also
documentation, all that have to be organized and linked in the best way
for our users (and I remember Gianluca Turconi saying too much of a
thing kill the thing ;). So we also have to take to not too much
overload our users with material, if it's possible.
Anway, enough of my prattling, I'm sure Sophie can fill you in with more
details should you require them.
Thanks for your prattling Alex, it's always very good to have you here :)
I think that we have reach the agreement in the FR project to host our
documentation under the documentation part of the wiki and not under a
sub part or the FR project. Let see how we can organize it now with the
other teams of the NLC and the Documentation team :)
