Here are notes from our latest check-in on October 27.

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FINERACT/2017-10-27+Weekly+Check-In+Meeting



On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:44 PM, ayuk etta <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi James,
>
> Thanks for the insight. Its great to have you contributing payments
> knowledge here, we needed it.
>
> *Ayuk Etta A.*
> *CEO/Founder, Skylabase, Inc*
> *Business Development Director Africa, Kuelap, Inc.*
> *Global Partner, Mifos Initiative *
> *Tel: +237 676101785*
> *     +220 3681740*
> *skype: **ayuketta2*
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 6:49 PM, James Dailey <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi All -
> >
> > Vladimir  - good project documentation and thank you for your many
> efforts
> > here:
> > https://gist.github.com/vladimirfomene/37bd38a289d0e9a0570b132735002868
> >
> > So, I would like to contribute some key understandings I have about
> > payments here, that I think are very important for this project and its
> > long term success.
> >
> > *one*, we must separate out the signaling for a potential payment from
> the
> > payment itself.  This is becoming the accepted approach in modern payment
> > systems - that one signals the "set-up" of a payment first, and then the
> > payment itself is a simple transaction.  These are, in a quasi technical
> > sense, in different *namespaces*.   You would therefore have a signal
> > message such as "Payment for Loan Repayment" on loan: 1234 for period:
> xyz
> > and for amount:y, on this date:z, which is then received/acknowledge by
> the
> > client.  The client then references the signal (this could often be
> called
> > an invoice for payment) and sends the payment.  By making this separation
> > explicit, new distributed permissioned ledger technologies can be
> leveraged
> > for the payment piece, while the signal can be evolved separately.
>  TL;DR
> > but see
> > https://www.eba.europa.eu/regulation-and-policy/payment-
> > services-and-electronic-money
> >
> >
> > ...and policy wise:  In the case where you don't have an invoice, the
> > customer must rely on the response from the Loan system for how the
> payment
> > was processed.  The customer may give some instruction for how they would
> > prefer the payment is to be applied. Ultimately, the creditor has the
> > contractual relationship and their internal logic for how payments are to
> > be applied; I think we cannot assume client payments are made with that
> > much instructional integrity.
> >
> > *two*, when we have a payment, **who** places the payment in the *payment
> > system* determines whether it is a push or a pull transaction. In a pull
> > system, the authorized merchant enters the payor information into the
> > system and has his/her bank route authorization of payment to the payee's
> > bank (when I say bank = Regulated Financial Service Provider), and the
> > funds are effectively locked up and sent at that moment.  So, we want
> push
> > transactions.   In a push transaction, the payor (customer for ease of
> > understanding) enters the information into the payment scheme and their
> > bank sends the good funds to the payee's bank, hopefully in real time.
> >
> > So, putting one and two together, the invoice is assumed to exist in the
> > recipient (payee) system and the customer's name is linked to that.  That
> > may work for 80% of the cases. i.e. Customer A makes a Payment X and they
> > only have one so we're good.   If the customer inputs a specific loan
> > number or specific payment (which could be part of the set up of the
> > payment on their device based on a record of what payments they've made),
> > then that specific payment reference number is provided to the recipient
> > system for confirmation.   I realize this changes the flow significantly,
> > but I think we have to look beyond the existing systems in the field
> today
> > and understand where things are going...
> >
> > *three*, clearing is a word that has very little meaning today.  It used
> to
> > refer to the movement of paper from one desk to another, now it's just
> > anachronistic.  In modern systems, transactions are sent and arrive in
> > microseconds so the key thing is to understand how settlement works.
> > Settlement is basically when banks (FSPs), at the end of the day or every
> > few minutes, move funds from one acct to another in a centralized account
> > (often at the Central Bank) so that they no longer owe each other.  So,
> > it's vitally important that the ledgers remain clear on who has actually
> > paid what amounts from which mobile money providers (FSPs).  I bring this
> > up because the flag of source of funds is probably something that needs
> > careful attention. Perhaps this is what Beyonic is handling - so all you
> > need is "paymentMethodType" : "beyonic",  but I would want to have that
> in
> > writing as it were.  Perhaps the mmp value is the implicit source of
> > funds?
> >
> > In payments of microfinance loans, if the mobile money account money is
> > held by a Mobile Network Operator in a regulated bank, then end of the
> day
> > they'd be sending funds and having a record of who sent what from what
> > banking entity is important.
> >
> > I'm commenting on the example request below - just for generating ideas:
> >
> > Example Request:
> >
> >     POST http://localhost:8080/inbound/requests?tenant=default
> >     Content-Type: application/json
> >     Request Body:
> >     {
> >         "id" : 1,
> >         "transactType" : "LOAN_REPAYMENT",  // yes, super important,
> > let's make sure we use a known value set from payments nomeclature
> >         "paymentMethod" : "mobile money",
> >         "paymentMethodType" : "beyonic",
> >         "mmpId" : 1,
> >         "mfiId" : 1,
> >         "sourceRef" : "+233267881050",
> >         "destinationRef" : "+80000000001",
> >         "fineractAccNo" : "000000039",  // can we use an actual FSP
> > name here rather than the software name?
> >         "fineractClientId" : 1, // same
> >         "amount" : 10, // currency is ?
> >         "transactionReason" : "Test Beyonic",
> >         "externalSystId" : 0,
> >         "comments" : "outgoing payment",  // redundant message?  why
> > is this needed?
> >         "requestDtm" : "1503492596",
> >         "requestIpAddress" : "127.0.0.1", //part of metadata for
> > security, should be a wrapper?
> >         "inboundStatusId" : 0, // state management in the message? Is
> > there a state diagram?
> >         "inboundStatusDtm" : "1503492596"
> >    }
> >
> >
> > Looking at above, aside from my concerns about separating out signal from
> > payment, and ensuring that the flows are logically clear, the other issue
> > is with the message state management.  This could become very chatty on a
> > network level if the state management becomes highly detailed.  Sent,
> > received, failed is the easy version, but that can grow exponentially
> with
> > each hop in the sub-systems involved and multiple round-trips and every
> > error-out condition leading to a different state condition.
> >
> > Also, we probably need a new glossary for fineract globally:
> > e.g. A payment system consists of all pre-processing and processing
> > components either at the bank or in a third party that touch the
> > transaction in route.  And I would make use of available globally
> > consistent definitions.
> > e.g. FSP = Financial Service Provider
> > which is probably the grist for another post to this group.   Later.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > James Dailey
> > SEATTLE
> >
>



-- 
*Ed Cable*
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