Hi all, thanks Ken & Jark for your comments regarding the Chinese translation proposal. I seems there is a agreement that project (1) (Improve English documentation) has a higher priority for us than project (2) (Chinese translation). We could still write two proposals and indicate priorities accordingly in our application. What do you think?
Regarding (1): I agree with both Stephan & Fabian and I think, we can achieve both. We shouldn't split it up, but still try to be as specific as possible in the subsections. We can then add a sentence in the sense of "The priorities between the proposed subsections or a focus on a specific subsection will be agreed upon between the organization and technical writer prior to the start of the project according to the preferences and background of the technical writer." to our proposal. Best, Konstantin On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 11:57 AM Fabian Hueske <fhue...@gmail.com> wrote: > Yes, I think we would get at most one project accepted. > Having all options in a rather generic proposal gives us the most > flexibility to decide what to work on once the proposal is accepted. > On the other hand, a more concrete proposal might look more attractive for > candidates. > I'm fine either way, but my gut feeling is that a well scoped proposal > gives better changes of finding a writer (which might be the biggest > challenge). > > Am Fr., 12. Apr. 2019 um 11:39 Uhr schrieb Stephan Ewen <se...@apache.org > >: > > > I would suggest to make one proposal and have the subsections only in the > > project plan. > > My understanding is that we need to indicate priorities between proposals > > and might get only one, so it would be good to not subdivide. > > > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 9:58 AM Fabian Hueske <fhue...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > I think we can split the first project that Stephan proposed into > smaller > > > ones: > > > > > > > (1) Create or rework setup / tutorials / concepts docs > > > > (2) Complete (or advance) the Chinese translation > > > > > > 1.1 Improving (extracting) the documentation of stream processing > > concepts: > > > Event-time, Timers, State, State Backends, Checkpointing, Savepoints > > > Right now, the relevant information is scattered across several pages > and > > > mixed with the implementation / APIs / configuration options. > > > > > > 1.2 Improving & extending the documentation of deployments > > > > > > 1.3 Adding documentation in the internals: Distributed architecture, > > > recovery, operators, job translation, execution, etc. > > > This documentation would be targeted to Flink developers. > > > > > > I thought again about the idea of improving the tutorials, and I'm no > > > longer sure if this would fit SoD well. > > > The reason is that creating good tutorials requires a good portion of > > > coding / configuration (creating Docker images, example programs, > etc.). > > > Also I'd like to start improving the situation of tutorials earlier > than > > > September. > > > > > > What do others think? > > > > > > Cheers, Fabian > > > > > > > > > Am Fr., 12. Apr. 2019 um 04:29 Uhr schrieb Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > > Hi Konstantin, Ken, > > > > > > > > I agree that Chinese documentation is mainly a translation. > > > > > > > > > Does anyone from the Blink team have input on whether there is > > > existing, > > > > original Chinese documentation which should be translated to English? > > > > > > > > There is a public Blink documentation [1] which is English. > > > > We have a Blink Chinese documentation in internal, but I think we > need > > to > > > > rewrite it in English and restructure it when contributing Blink to > > > Flink. > > > > > > > > Regarding the Chinese translation project, I agree with Ken's > opinion. > > > > > > > > From the point of my translation experience, translation is a work > that > > > > need to understand the original English sentence correctly and then > > > express > > > > it in Chinese in an easily understandable way. This is not a simple > > work > > > > that translate word by word. The one we need is not a "professional > > > > translator", > > > > but a "technical writer who are familiar with both languages". I > also > > > > agree that the writer who write the initial documentation has the > > better > > > > ability than > > > > translator to distill complex technical concepts. > > > > > > > > [1]: https://flink-china.org/doc/blink > > > > > > > > On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 at 02:40, Ken Krugler < > kkrugler_li...@transpac.com > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Konstantin, > > > > > > > > > > Comments inline below… > > > > > > > > > > — Ken > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 11, 2019, at 9:05 AM, Konstantin Knauf < > > > > konstan...@ververica.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > I will start going through the registration process tomorrow > (CET). > > > > > > Jincheng (cc) reached out to me directly and offered to be the > > second > > > > > > organization administrator. So, we are all set in that regard. > > > > > > > > > > > > In terms of mentors, we now have > > > > > > > > > > > > * myself > > > > > > * Fabian > > > > > > * David > > > > > > * Stephan > > > > > > * Jark (Chinese Translation) > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the Chinese translation project, it is probably a > > question > > > of > > > > > how > > > > > > independent the Chinese version is supposed to be. If the English > > > > > > documentation is the ground-truth and the Chinese documentation > is > > > > > (mainly) > > > > > > a translation, I agree with Stefan. If the Chinese documentation > is > > > > > > supposed to become an independent secondary documentation, it > could > > > be > > > > a > > > > > > project for a technical writer as well. Has this questions > already > > > been > > > > > > discussed in the community? > > > > > > > > > > My understanding is that the Chinese documentation is going to > mostly > > > be > > > > a > > > > > translation of the English versions. > > > > > > > > > > Though perhaps, with all of the Blink integration going on, the > > inverse > > > > > could also be true. > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone from the Blink team have input on whether there is > > > existing, > > > > > original Chinese documentation which should be translated to > English? > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 11:34 AM Stephan Ewen <se...@apache.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> So we have two ideas for docs projects now: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> (1) Create or rework setup / tutorials / concepts docs > > > > > >> (2) Complete (or advance) the Chinese translation > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Should we apply for both (and let the SoD committee select > > whichever > > > > > they > > > > > >> want to sponsor) or select one of them? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> For project (2), this sounds to me more like a project for a > > > > > "translator", > > > > > >> not a "technical writer". As far as I understand it, the big > > benefit > > > > of > > > > > >> having a technical writer is to have someone who can describe > > > > > complicated > > > > > >> technical concepts (that engineers describe in complicated > > language) > > > > in > > > > > an > > > > > >> easily understandable way. > > > > > > > > > > Actually a good Chinese translation of the technical docs requires > > > > someone > > > > > with many of the same skills. In order for the translation to be > > > > accurate, > > > > > you need someone who understands the concepts of the underlying > > > > technology, > > > > > to use appropriate terminology. Though I agree that the ability to > > > > distill > > > > > complex technical concepts is more important when writing initial > > > > > documentation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 9:47 AM Fabian Hueske < > fhue...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> Thanks for the clarification Aizhamal! > > > > > >>> This is really helpful and will make it a lot easier to > > coordinate > > > > :-) > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> As for next steps, I found this email on the > > > > d...@community.apache.org > > > > > >>> mailing list: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> ================================================== > > > > > >>> Hi All, > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> As mentioned the applications for the Google Season of Docs > > opened > > > > > today > > > > > >>> and I'm working my way through it on behalf of the ASF. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> If accepted, we will be allocated either one or two techical > > > writers. > > > > > >>> Google will also pay the ASF a stipend of $500 per technical > > writer > > > > > >>> mentored (which I hope can go directly to fundraising :-) > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Each project that wants to participate must provide two mentors > > for > > > > > each > > > > > >>> documentation project. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> As part of the application process there are a few things that > we > > > > need > > > > > to > > > > > >>> setup. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> 1. Season of Docs Page and List of Project Ideas > > > > > >>> We need to create a public webpage about Season of Docs that > > > contains > > > > > the > > > > > >>> list of project ideas for documentation. I have created a page > on > > > the > > > > > >>> ComDev wiki https://s.apache.org/w4CH with a table for > projects > > > to > > > > > >> record > > > > > >>> their ideas. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> 2. Alternative administrator. > > > > > >>> I’ve set myself up as the primary admin and Maxim as the > > > alternative > > > > > >> admin > > > > > >>> (Maxim, I need to confirm your contact email and you will also > > need > > > > to > > > > > >>> register as the alternative admin and I will email you the link > > > > > offline) > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> 3. Mentors > > > > > >>> All mentors from the projects interested in participating must > > > > register > > > > > >>> individually at the following link : > > > > > https://forms.gle/a1x26WQGzURLerv66 > > > > > >> . > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> 4. Application Form: Documentation / Technnial Writer > > Collaboration > > > > > >>> There is a section to fill in about experience with > documentation > > > and > > > > > any > > > > > >>> previous collaboration with technical writers. I know a few > > > projects > > > > > have > > > > > >>> used various tools for documentation - but not sure about any > > > > technical > > > > > >>> writing collaboration (so if you know of any then please let me > > > know) > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> 5. Application Form: GSoC > > > > > >>> There is a section to complete at our participation in GSoC.I > > > think I > > > > > >> have > > > > > >>> the details from our application this year so can follow up > with > > > > Maxim > > > > > or > > > > > >>> Uli about it > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> This is all I have at the moment and we have until the 23rd > April > > > > 2019 > > > > > to > > > > > >>> finalise all the application details. Ideally I want to have it > > > done > > > > > well > > > > > >>> before then :-) > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Please pass on this information within your various projects > and > > as > > > > > with > > > > > >>> GSoC - I'll see how we can get this information out to all our > > > > project > > > > > >>> mailing lists. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Thanks > > > > > >>> Sharan > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> ================================================== > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> I guess, we would need to follow these steps as well. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Best, > > > > > >>> Fabian > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Am Do., 11. Apr. 2019 um 05:08 Uhr schrieb Jark Wu < > > > imj...@gmail.com > > > > >: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> Hi Aizhamal, > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> That's really interesting. We have an ongoing proposal for > > > > supporting > > > > > >>>> Chinese documentation, see FLIP-35 [1]. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> I think it's a good idea to propose Chinese translation as a > > > > project. > > > > > >>> It's > > > > > >>>> a good chance to improve the localization user experience of > > Flink > > > > > >>>> documentation. > > > > > >>>> I can help as a mentor if we want to submit such a project. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Thanks, > > > > > >>>> Jark Wu > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> [1]: > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-35%3A+Support+Chinese+Documents+and+Website > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 at 02:11, Aizhamal Nurmamat kyzy > > > > > >>>> <aizha...@google.com.invalid> wrote: > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>>> Hello everyone, > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> @Fabian Hueske <fhue...@gmail.com> - SoD setup is a little > bit > > > > > >>> different. > > > > > >>>>> The ASF determined that each project would be allowed to > apply > > > > > >>>>> individually[1], rather than applying as a single large > > > > organization. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Each project applies as an org, with two organizers > > (administers) > > > > and > > > > > >> at > > > > > >>>>> least two mentors. As Konstantin pointed out, one can be both > > an > > > > > >>>>> administer > > > > > >>>>> and a mentor. You don't need to coordinate with other > projects > > or > > > > ASF > > > > > >> at > > > > > >>>>> all. If accepted to the program, you will receive project > > > proposals > > > > > >> from > > > > > >>>>> tech writers [2]. You will choose one or two proposals that > you > > > > want > > > > > >> to > > > > > >>>>> mentor[3]. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> @Ken - as for the language, there isn’t any limitations in > that > > > > > >> regard, > > > > > >>> so > > > > > >>>>> work on the Chinese translation for the website is definitely > > an > > > > > >>>>> acceptable > > > > > >>>>> project. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Thanks, > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Aizhamal > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> [1] > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/67e1c2e6041cff1e7f198b615407401f032795130e796adfaacf8071@%3Cdev.community.apache.org%3E > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> [2] https://developers.google.com/season-of-docs/docs/ > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> [3] > > > > > >>> > > > > > https://developers.google.com/season-of-docs/docs/faq#slot-allocation > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 8:32 AM Ken Krugler < > > > > > >>> kkrugler_li...@transpac.com> > > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> Hi Aizhamal, > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> I assume SoD is language-agnostic, so one possible project > > would > > > > be > > > > > >> to > > > > > >>>>> get > > > > > >>>>>> a tech writer for the Chinese versions of all of the Flink > > > > > >>>>> documentation, > > > > > >>>>>> yes? > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> Regards, > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> — Ken > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2019, at 3:43 PM, Aizhamal Nurmamat kyzy > > > > > >>>>>> <aizha...@google.com.INVALID> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Hello everyone, > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> TL;DR If you need some improvements for Flink > documentation, > > > > apply > > > > > >>> to > > > > > >>>>>>> Season of Docs before April 23rd. > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Background: > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Season of Docs is like Google Summer of Code, but for > > > > > >> documentation. > > > > > >>>>>>> Projects write ideas on how they would like to improve > their > > > > > >>>>>> documentation, > > > > > >>>>>>> then if they are accepted to the program, they will get a > > > > > >>> professional > > > > > >>>>>> tech > > > > > >>>>>>> writer to work on the project’s documentation for 3 months. > > > > > >>> Technical > > > > > >>>>>>> writer’s get stipend from Google. > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> If you think that Apache Flink could benefit from it, > please > > > > > >> submit > > > > > >>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>> application before April 23rd. > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> The program requires two administrators, to manage the > > > > > >>> organization's > > > > > >>>>>>> participation in SoD, and at least two mentors to onboard > > tech > > > > > >>>>> writers to > > > > > >>>>>>> the project, and work with them closely during 3 months > > period > > > > > >> [2]. > > > > > >>> To > > > > > >>>>>> be a > > > > > >>>>>>> mentor in this program, you don't have to be a technical > > > writer, > > > > > >> but > > > > > >>>>> you > > > > > >>>>>>> must know Flink and the open source well to > onboard/introduce > > > > tech > > > > > >>>>>> writers > > > > > >>>>>>> to the project, and be able to support them during the > whole > > > > > >>> process. > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> I am an administrator for 2 Apache projects, and will be > more > > > > than > > > > > >>>>> happy > > > > > >>>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>> share my knowledge on this, if you, as an organization > decide > > > to > > > > > >>>>> apply. > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> I think it will be great if Flink participates in it too! > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Thanks, > > > > > >>>>>>> Aizhamal > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> [1] https://developers.google.com/season-of-docs/ > > > > > >>>>>>> [2] > > https://developers.google.com/season-of-docs/docs/timeline > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------- > > > > > Ken Krugler > > > > > +1 530-210-6378 > > > > > http://www.scaleunlimited.com > > > > > Custom big data solutions & training > > > > > Flink, Solr, Hadoop, Cascading & Cassandra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Konstantin Knauf | Solutions Architect +49 160 91394525 <https://www.ververica.com/> Follow us @VervericaData -- Join Flink Forward <https://flink-forward.org/> - The Apache Flink Conference Stream Processing | Event Driven | Real Time -- Data Artisans GmbH | Invalidenstrasse 115, 10115 Berlin, Germany -- Data Artisans GmbH Registered at Amtsgericht Charlottenburg: HRB 158244 B Managing Directors: Dr. Kostas Tzoumas, Dr. Stephan Ewen
