If anyone wants to do a drive by PR link to vendor docs, just let them. Just have the menu set up so it doesn't get too visually busy?
E.g.: Deployment & Ops -> Cluster Deployment -> 3rd Party Vendors -> [ GCP, AWS, Azure, Ververica, Oracle Cloud, IBM, Lightbend, Crazy Trevo's House of Streaming, How to Submit to This List ] where each one will link to a the vendor docs and pop the link open in a new tab. When a link goes down- comment it out and ping whoever made the original PR. On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 11:28 AM Seth Wiesman <sjwies...@gmail.com> wrote: > @chesnay I'm not sure, however, I don't know what we could do to improve > the situation that wouldn't effectively be copying those vendors docs into > our own. > > One option would be to do exactly that, but then I feel like we are > committing to tracking changes on those systems and I just don't know how > feasible that is. > > I am personally still in favor of the removal of all three but as a > compromise, we could replace these pages with a "Vendor" page that just > links to the appropriate docs for these services. It could also include the > most basic Filesystem information that @ufuk mentioned. That still leaves > an open question of who we allow. Just the cloud providers or also others > like Cloudera and Ververica? For AWS only EMR or also Kinesis Data > Analytics, etc. > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 10:25 AM Robert Metzger <rmetz...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > The bounce rate of these pages is not particularly bad. > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 3:48 PM Trevor Grant <trevor.d.gr...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > You can infer that by looking at the "bounce rate" eg someone gets to > the > > > page, looks at it, realizes its trash and clicks "back". > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 8:46 AM Chesnay Schepler <ches...@apache.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Question now is whether the numbers are so low because the docs > aren't > > > > required or because they are so bad. > > > > > > > > On 05/12/2019 14:26, Robert Metzger wrote: > > > > > I just checked GA: > > > > > > > > > > All numbers are for the last month, independent of the Flink > version: > > > > > aws.html: 918 pageviews > > > > > mapr_setup.html: 108 pageviews > > > > > gce_setup.html: 256 pageviews > > > > > > > > > > Some other deployment-related pages for reference: > > > > > yarn_setup: 4687 > > > > > cluster: 4284 > > > > > kubernetes: 3428 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:53 PM Trevor Grant < > > trevor.d.gr...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Same as Ufuk (non-binding) > > > > >> > > > > >> In general, docs pages are great "first commits" to leave out > there > > as > > > > >> newb-issues. > > > > >> > > > > >> Also though, worth checking how often people use the page (e.g. > GA) > > > > >> > > > > >> 3rd option: add a `.bu` to AWS/GCE pages and open a JIRA ticket to > > fix > > > > them > > > > >> (and put a readme explaining why they are in `.bu` status (which > > > should > > > > >> prevent the build from picking them up), in essence, you're > > commenting > > > > them > > > > >> all out until someone can come around fix them. > > > > >> > > > > >> Further, I would put a holder page in their place that says > > something > > > > like, > > > > >> "This works, but we need someone to update the docs- check out > JIRA > > > XXXX > > > > >> for more details", might get someone to clean em up sooner w a > > little > > > > >> advertising. > > > > >> > > > > >> Just my .02 > > > > >> > > > > >> I can't do full overhauls right now, but I could execute the > > "comment > > > > out" > > > > >> option if it comes to that. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 6:35 AM Ufuk Celebi <u...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> +1 to drop the MapR page. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> For the other two I'm +0. I fully agree that the linked AWS and > GCE > > > > pages > > > > >>> are in bad shape and don't relate to a component developed by the > > > > >>> community. Do we have any numbers from Google Analytics on how > > > popular > > > > >>> those pages are? If they are somewhat popular, I would prefer to > > "fix > > > > >> them" > > > > >>> to be good starting points for users in those environments > > (probably > > > by > > > > >>> boiling them down to saying something simple such as "You should > > use > > > > >>> FileSystem [...] and point it to [...]."). > > > > >>> > > > > >>> – Ufuk > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 10:49 AM Till Rohrmann < > > trohrm...@apache.org> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>>> If the community cannot manage to keep the vendor-specific > > > > >> documentation > > > > >>> up > > > > >>>> to date, then I believe it is better to drop it. Hence +1 for > the > > > > >>> proposal. > > > > >>>> Cheers, > > > > >>>> Till > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 3:12 PM Aljoscha Krettek < > > > aljos...@apache.org> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>>>> +1 > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Best, > > > > >>>>> Aljoscha > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On 2. Dec 2019, at 18:38, Konstantin Knauf < > > > > >> konstan...@ververica.com > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>> +1 from my side to drop. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 6:34 PM Seth Wiesman < > > sjwies...@gmail.com> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> Hi all, > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> I'd like to discuss dropping vendor-specific deployment > > > > >>> documentation > > > > >>>>> from > > > > >>>>>>> Flink's official docs. To be clear, I am *NOT* suggesting we > > drop > > > > >>> any of > > > > >>>>>>> the filesystem documentation, but the following three pages. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> AWS: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://ci.apache.org/projects/flink/flink-docs-master/ops/deployment/aws.html > > > > >>>>>>> Google Compute Engine: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://ci.apache.org/projects/flink/flink-docs-master/ops/deployment/gce_setup.html > > > > >>>>>>> MapR: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://ci.apache.org/projects/flink/flink-docs-master/ops/deployment/mapr_setup.html > > > > >>>>>>> Unlike the filesystems, these docs do not refer to components > > > > >>>>> maintained by > > > > >>>>>>> the Apache Flink community, but external commercial services > > and > > > > >>>>> products. > > > > >>>>>>> None of these pages are well maintained and I do not think > the > > > > >>>>> open-source > > > > >>>>>>> community can reasonably be expected to keep them up to date. > > In > > > > >>>>>>> particular, > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> - The AWS page contains sparse information and mostly just > > > links > > > > >>> to > > > > >>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>> official EMR docs. > > > > >>>>>>> - The Google Compute Engine page is out of date and the > > > commands > > > > >>> do > > > > >>>>> not > > > > >>>>>>> work. > > > > >>>>>>> - MapR contains some relevant information but the > community > > > has > > > > >>>>> already > > > > >>>>>>> dropped the MapR filesystem so I am not sure that > deployment > > > > >> would > > > > >>>>> work > > > > >>>>>>> (I > > > > >>>>>>> have not tested). > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> There is also a larger question of which vendor products > should > > > be > > > > >>>>> included > > > > >>>>>>> and which should not. That is why I would like to suggest > > > dropping > > > > >>> these > > > > >>>>>>> pages and referring users to vendor maintained documentation > > > > >>> whenever > > > > >>>>> they > > > > >>>>>>> are using one of these services. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Seth Wiesman > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Konstantin Knauf | Solutions Architect > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> +49 160 91394525 > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Follow us @VervericaData Ververica < > https://www.ververica.com/> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Join Flink Forward <https://flink-forward.org/> - The Apache > > > Flink > > > > >>>>>> Conference > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Stream Processing | Event Driven | Real Time > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Ververica GmbH | Invalidenstrasse 115, 10115 Berlin, Germany > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>> Ververica GmbH > > > > >>>>>> Registered at Amtsgericht Charlottenburg: HRB 158244 B > > > > >>>>>> Managing Directors: Timothy Alexander Steinert, Yip Park Tung > > > > >> Jason, > > > > >>> Ji > > > > >>>>>> (Tony) Cheng > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
