Hi everyone, very interesting thread. The proposal for deprecation seems to have sparked a very important discussion. Do we what users struggle with specifically?
Speaking for myself, when I upgrade flink-faker to the new Source API an unbounded version of the NumberSequenceSource would have been all I needed, but that's just the data generator use case. I think, that one could be solved quite easily. David, can you elaborate why you need watermark generation in the source for your data generators? Cheers, Konstantin Am So., 5. Juni 2022 um 17:48 Uhr schrieb Piotr Nowojski < pnowoj...@apache.org>: > Also +1 to what David has written. But it doesn't mean we should be waiting > indefinitely to deprecate SourceFunction. > > Best, > Piotrek > > niedz., 5 cze 2022 o 16:46 Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> napisał(a): > > > +1 to David's point. > > > > Usually, when we deprecate some interfaces, we should point users to use > > the recommended alternatives. > > However, implementing the new Source interface for some simple scenarios > is > > too challenging and complex. > > We also found it isn't easy to push the internal connector to upgrade to > > the new Source because > > "FLIP-27 are hard to understand, while SourceFunction is easy". > > > > +1 to make implementing a simple Source easier before deprecating > > SourceFunction. > > > > Best, > > Jark > > > > > > On Sun, 5 Jun 2022 at 07:29, Jingsong Lee <lzljs3620...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > > > +1 to David and Ingo. > > > > > > Before deprecate and remove SourceFunction, we should have some easier > > APIs > > > to wrap new Source, the cost to write a new Source is too high now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ingo Bürk <airbla...@apache.org>于2022年6月5日 周日05:32写道： > > > > > > > I +1 everything David said. The new Source API raised the complexity > > > > significantly. It's great to have such a rich, powerful API that can > do > > > > everything, but in the process we lost the ability to onboard people > to > > > > the APIs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best > > > > Ingo > > > > > > > > On 04.06.22 21:21, David Anderson wrote: > > > > > I'm in favor of this, but I think we need to make it easier to > > > implement > > > > > data generators and test sources. As things stand in 1.15, unless > you > > > can > > > > > be satisfied with using a NumberSequenceSource followed by a map, > > > things > > > > > get quite complicated. I looked into reworking the data generators > > used > > > > in > > > > > the training exercises, and got discouraged by the amount of work > > > > involved. > > > > > (The sources used in the training want to be unbounded, and need > > > > > watermarking in the sources, which means that using > > > NumberSequenceSource > > > > > isn't an option.) > > > > > > > > > > I think the proposed deprecation will be better received if it can > be > > > > > accompanied by something that makes implementing a simple Source > > easier > > > > > than it is now. People are continuing to implement new > > SourceFunctions > > > > > because the interfaces defined by FLIP-27 are hard to understand, > > while > > > > > SourceFunction is easy. Alex, I believe you were looking into > > > > implementing > > > > > an easier-to-use building block that could be used in situations > like > > > > this. > > > > > Can we get something like that in place first? > > > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 4:52 PM Jing Ge <j...@ververica.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Hi, > > > > >> > > > > >> Thanks Alex for driving this! > > > > >> > > > > >> +1 To give the Flink developers, especially Connector developers > the > > > > clear > > > > >> signal that the new Source API is recommended according to > FLIP-27, > > we > > > > >> should mark them as deprecated. > > > > >> > > > > >> There are some open questions to discuss: > > > > >> > > > > >> 1. Do we need to mark all subinterfaces/subclasses as deprecated? > > e.g. > > > > >> FromElementsFunction, etc. there are many. What are the > > replacements? > > > > >> 2. Do we need to mark all subclasses that have replacement as > > > > deprecated? > > > > >> e.g. ExternallyInducedSource whose replacement class, if I am not > > > > mistaken, > > > > >> ExternallyInducedSourceReader is @Experimental > > > > >> 3. Do we need to mark all related test utility classes as > > deprecated? > > > > >> > > > > >> I think it might make sense to create an umbrella ticket to cover > > all > > > of > > > > >> these with the following process: > > > > >> > > > > >> 1. Mark SourceFunction as deprecated asap. > > > > >> 2. Mark subinterfaces and subclasses as deprecated, if there are > > > > graduated > > > > >> replacements. Good example is that KafkaSource replaced > > KafkaConsumer > > > > which > > > > >> has been marked as deprecated. > > > > >> 3. Do not mark subinterfaces and subclasses as deprecated, if > > > > replacement > > > > >> classes are still experimental, check if it is time to graduate > > them. > > > > After > > > > >> graduation, go to step 2. It might take a while for graduation. > > > > >> 4. Do not mark subinterfaces and subclasses as deprecated, if the > > > > >> replacement classes are experimental and are too young to > graduate. > > We > > > > have > > > > >> to wait. But in this case we could create new tickets under the > > > umbrella > > > > >> ticket. > > > > >> 5. Do not mark subinterfaces and subclasses as deprecated, if > there > > is > > > > no > > > > >> replacement at all. We have to create new tickets and wait until > the > > > new > > > > >> implementation has been done and graduated. It will take a longer > > > time, > > > > >> roughly 1,5 years. > > > > >> 6. For test classes, we could follow the same rule. But I think > for > > > some > > > > >> cases, we could consider doing the replacement directly without > > going > > > > >> through the deprecation phase. > > > > >> > > > > >> When we look back on all of these, we can realize it is a big epic > > > (even > > > > >> bigger than an epic). It needs someone to drive it and keep focus > on > > > it > > > > >> continuously with support from the community and push the > > development > > > > >> towards the new Source API of FLIP-27. > > > > >> > > > > >> If we could have consensus for this, Alex and I could create the > > > > umbrella > > > > >> ticket to kick it off. > > > > >> > > > > >> Best regards, > > > > >> Jing > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 3:54 PM Alexander Fedulov < > > > > alexan...@ververica.com> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> Hi everyone, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I would like to start the discussion about marking > > > SourceFunction-based > > > > >>> interfaces as deprecated. With the FLIP-27 APIs becoming the new > > > > >> standard, > > > > >>> the old ones have to be eventually phased out. Although this > state > > is > > > > >> well > > > > >>> known within the community and no new connectors based on the old > > > > >>> interfaces can be accepted into the project, the footprint of > > > > >>> SourceFunction in the user code still keeps growing (primarily > for > > > data > > > > >>> generators and test utilities). I believe it is best to mark > > > > >> SourceFunction > > > > >>> as deprecated as soon as possible. What do you think? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Best, > > > > >>> Alexander Fedulov > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- https://twitter.com/snntrable https://github.com/knaufk
