On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 7:08 PM <le...@flowlogix.com> wrote: > Ok, I see that my confusion is definitely justified. >
Well, only insofar as willful ignorance is justified. I already explained that there is no copyright issue regarding the FreeMarker 3 that I announced. FreeMarker 3 is based on code that was never at Apache. It is the continuation of the trunk (a.k.a. "master"/"main") of development from when FreeMarker was on Sourceforget.net. (Apache FreeMarker is based on the obsolete code from the 2.3 maintenance branch.) Ask Daniel. He'll tell you the same thing. > > I would definitely bring this up to the Apache board. > I am not a lawyer, but am familiar somewhat with the issue at hand, and it > looks like a copyright dispute, at least in the making. > No, not at all. There is no copyright issue. There could conceivably be a trademark issue, but I doubt it really. As Daniel pointed out, and I do not dispute this, I did sign some document or other where, presumably, I agreed not to use the name FreeMarker. However, it can't really be a binding contract since there was no quid pro quo. It's just me promising something in exchange for absolutely nothing. So, since it's not a binding contract, what it boils down it is that I simply changed my mind. (Shrug.) > An entity with a copyright needs to defend it, thus it needs to be brought > up to the Board. This is what it’s there for. > Well, you are quite a pugnacious little punk, aren't you? Well, fine. Such is life. I am quite satisfied that there is no particular reason that I cannot resume work on the main stream of FreeMarker development and simply say that this is what it is. I mean, really, what are you going to do about it? (Punk...) Regards, Jonathan Revusky -- CongoCC Parser Generator: https://parsers.org/ Try out the FreeMarker 3 Preview: https://github.com/freemarker/freemarker3/wiki > > > > On Feb 15, 2024, at 8:37 AM, Jonathan Revusky <revu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 9:28 AM Daniel Dekany <daniel.dek...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> As far as Apache is concerned, there will be no other template engine > with > >> "FreeMarker" in its name, only Apache FreeMarker. > > > > > > Well, yeah, I anticipated that this would be your position. Basically, > the > > idea is that you'll just pretend, month after month, year after year... > > that the more advanced version of the tool does not exist. And maybe, due > > to the visibility advantage of the Apache name, most people won't realize > > that the more advanced version exists. (That remains to be seen.) > > > > Regardless, the whole thing is really quite ignoble and downright > pathetic. > > Frankly, it boils down to the idea that people should be saddled with > > something completely obsolete and inferior so that people like you can > feel > > like you're somebody... though that seems to be what ASF is about mostly. > > But surely you can understand that I don't feel like encouraging that > kind > > of thing or supporting it. > > > > > > > >> Even if an Apache project > >> is retired, its name goes into the grave with it (usually). There are no > >> plans to retire Apache FreeMarker. > >> > >> This is simply because the "FreeMarker" name was given to the Apache > >> Software Foundation (in 2015). Jonathan signed the Software Grant > Agreement > >> back then. > > > > > > That is true. I did sign that. At that time, I did not anticipate doing > > anything further with FreeMarker. > > > > So, I stated my intent at that point in time and have now changed my > mind. > > I am quite satisfied that there is no breach of contract. There can't be > a > > binding contract without any quid pro quo whatsoever. I hand over > something > > in exchange for what exactly? Nothing. You don't need to have gone to law > > school to know that that is not a binding contract -- one party promising > > something in exchange for nothing... > > > > So I said (though it was not really legally binding) that I did not > intend > > to use the FreeMarker name any more. And I did not intend to, but I have > > since changed my mind. > > > > So, as things stand now, you can expect that there will be some new > > FreeMarker releases forthcoming, based on the much more advanced codebase > > developed outside ASF. > > > > Jonathan Revusky > > -- > > Check out the new features in FreeMarker 3: > > https://github.com/freemarker/freemarker3/wiki > > CongoCC Parser Generator: > https://github.com/congo-cc/congo-parser-generator > > > > > > > > > > > >> The project can be freely forked, but the result should be > >> released under a different name. That's that simple. > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 5:40 AM <le...@flowlogix.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I am still confused about “Apache FreeMarker 3” vs “FreeMarker 3” > >>> Are these two separate projects? Is the direction to remove FreeMarker > >>> from Apache eventually? > >>> I don’t think I am the only one that’s confused. > >>> Would that something that would require Apache Board attention? > >>> > >>>> On Feb 14, 2024, at 12:20 PM, Daniel Dekany <ddek...@apache.org> > >> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> It's here: > >>>> > >>> > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FREEMARKER/Board+report+draft+-+February+2024 > >>>> > >>>> Anything to add, especially for PMC members? Though not sure there > will > >>> be > >>>> time for updates before they close it... but still. > >>> > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> Best regards, > >> Daniel Dekany > >> > >
