Who of the mentors plan to stay as PMC member after FM graduates? -- Thanks, Daniel Dekany
Sunday, June 19, 2016, 4:39:54 AM, Ralph Goers wrote: > If the graduation vote fails the project would be told why. They > would continue in the incubator if they choose until whatever issues there > were are addressed. > > PPMC members usually continue on as PMC members although mentors frequently > don’t stay on. > > Ralph > >> On Jun 18, 2016, at 7:01 AM, Daniel Dekany <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Saturday, June 18, 2016, 9:41:19 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: >> >>> I agree that it is the right time to discuss graduation. >>> In my opinion the incubation process for Freemarker has been successful and >>> for this reason I will vote +1 for the graduation. >>> As anticipated when we initially discussed the incubation, one critical >>> aspect of the Freemarker project was its small committer's base; under this >>> aspect the incubation process didn't do any magic and frankly speaking I >>> was not expecting it to happen. >>> However, as mentioned by Daniel and Sergio, the project is mature but there >>> are plans for the future that will keep the community busy, not just >>> maintaining the old code. >>> This community has still to find a more effective way to attract new >>> committers but this should not be a blocker to become a top level project @ >>> ASF. >> >> And for the record, I think that requires some substantial >> modernization/cleanup, which I have called FreeMarker 3 as it drops >> backward compatibility. There are many things where FreeMarker 2 can >> be evolved further without breaking backward compatibility, but making >> the project more attractive is also timely, and the resources are >> scarce, so I think we can't have both. >> >>> It is however important to verify that we will have, even after graduation, >>> a PMC group capable of casting at least 3 positive votes on releases. >> >> Is it customary for PPMC members of the poddling to be also in the PMC >> of the graduated project? If so, can any of you express his intent >> regarding that? >> >> What are the risks of failing the graduation vote? >> >> BTW, something that I can do to help it, to document some >> project-specific rules, and a step-by-step release tutorial. >> >> -- >> Thanks, >> Daniel Dekany >> >> >>> Jacopo >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 1:55 PM, Sergio Fernández <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Daniel, >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:18 PM, Daniel Dekany <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think we can start some discussion about that even now. Or at least >>>>> I will tell what do I think about the state of the project. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Great step. Thanks. >>>> >>>> The main problem is the number of active developers, which is 1, me. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I'm aware... >>>> >>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-freemarker/graphs/contributors?from=2015-07-01&type=c >>>> >>>> >>>>> What if I'm hit by a truck tomorrow? We can hope that if there's a bug >>>>> that concerns many, then someone will eventually fix it. After all the >>>>> owner (ASF) won't be gone, the release infrastructure is there, etc. >>>>> But as far as non-bugfix development goes, it's certain that things >>>>> would stop. Some may say that that's OK for a project that's >>>>> backward-compatibility-locked for 12 years now (the 2.x line is >>>>> actually 14 years old). >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, I'd say that's critical, but the community of a project is more than >>>> the developers who code. And the Freemarker community is much bigger than >>>> what you could think. >>>> >>>> For instance if you consider my personal case: I volunteered for mentor >>>> because I knew the project for so long. I even code some extensions ( >>>> http://marmotta.apache.org/ldpath/template.html). Definitively I used >>>> Freemarker much more in the past than currently, but Web development has >>>> changed a lot, moving more stuff to the frontend (10 years ago we didn't >>>> have AngularJS). >>>> >>>> So I'd say there are many people like me out there, using every day >>>> solutions based on Freemarker. People who are not that close to the source >>>> base, but familiar enough to be able to jump in at any time a provide a >>>> patch. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> But of course that's just slow death if a >>>>> project can't counter its old design problems and can't evolve to >>>>> tackle new problems anymore. So indeed 2.x should switch to >>>>> maintenance eventually (but ATM there are still things that can be >>>>> done in 2.x), but only to give place for 3.x. Anyway, how to catch >>>>> long standing developers? I don't think that 2.x have a real chance >>>>> for that, because of all the legacy code burden piled up. (Some Apache >>>>> projects have many paid contributors, but I think FM isn't the kind of >>>>> project that can have that, so it's important that the developers want >>>>> to fiddle with it for free.) So the 3.x jump will be necessary, and >>>>> then, maybe, we can have a developer base growth (template engines >>>>> isn't hot topic anymore, so I just mean having a few developers >>>>> around). But 3.x is far away (if it will happen at all), and we can't >>>>> hang around in the incubator forever. >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, we can consider 2.3.x feature-complete, and 2.3.25-incubating a >>>> maintenance release. The world has change a lot in template business in >>>> these 14 years. But I'm pretty sure FreeMarker has its place there, and 3.x >>>> could bring some many great ideas that may attract potential new >>>> contributors. And that's what I see as future of this project. >>>> >>>> >>>>> So, do you believe there's any chance to graduate with the current >>>>> developer base? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Definitively that has been always the major issue with this podling. >>>> Honestly I'm not sure. But following with all my argumentation that the >>>> community is much bigger that what shows the development team, I'd say >>>> could be at least discussed with the IPMC. >>>> >>>> Looking forward to hear every body else's opinions. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sergio Fernández >>>> Partner Technology Manager >>>> Redlink GmbH >>>> m: +43 6602747925 >>>> e: [email protected] >>>> w: http://redlink.co >>>> >> >> > > >
