I do, if you are ok with it. Jacopo
On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Daniel Dekany <[email protected]> wrote: > Who of the mentors plan to stay as PMC member after FM graduates? > > -- > Thanks, > Daniel Dekany > > > Sunday, June 19, 2016, 4:39:54 AM, Ralph Goers wrote: > > > If the graduation vote fails the project would be told why. They > > would continue in the incubator if they choose until whatever issues > there were are addressed. > > > > PPMC members usually continue on as PMC members although mentors > frequently don’t stay on. > > > > Ralph > > > >> On Jun 18, 2016, at 7:01 AM, Daniel Dekany <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Saturday, June 18, 2016, 9:41:19 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > >> > >>> I agree that it is the right time to discuss graduation. > >>> In my opinion the incubation process for Freemarker has been > successful and > >>> for this reason I will vote +1 for the graduation. > >>> As anticipated when we initially discussed the incubation, one critical > >>> aspect of the Freemarker project was its small committer's base; under > this > >>> aspect the incubation process didn't do any magic and frankly speaking > I > >>> was not expecting it to happen. > >>> However, as mentioned by Daniel and Sergio, the project is mature but > there > >>> are plans for the future that will keep the community busy, not just > >>> maintaining the old code. > >>> This community has still to find a more effective way to attract new > >>> committers but this should not be a blocker to become a top level > project @ > >>> ASF. > >> > >> And for the record, I think that requires some substantial > >> modernization/cleanup, which I have called FreeMarker 3 as it drops > >> backward compatibility. There are many things where FreeMarker 2 can > >> be evolved further without breaking backward compatibility, but making > >> the project more attractive is also timely, and the resources are > >> scarce, so I think we can't have both. > >> > >>> It is however important to verify that we will have, even after > graduation, > >>> a PMC group capable of casting at least 3 positive votes on releases. > >> > >> Is it customary for PPMC members of the poddling to be also in the PMC > >> of the graduated project? If so, can any of you express his intent > >> regarding that? > >> > >> What are the risks of failing the graduation vote? > >> > >> BTW, something that I can do to help it, to document some > >> project-specific rules, and a step-by-step release tutorial. > >> > >> -- > >> Thanks, > >> Daniel Dekany > >> > >> > >>> Jacopo > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 1:55 PM, Sergio Fernández <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi Daniel, > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:18 PM, Daniel Dekany <[email protected]> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I think we can start some discussion about that even now. Or at least > >>>>> I will tell what do I think about the state of the project. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Great step. Thanks. > >>>> > >>>> The main problem is the number of active developers, which is 1, me. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> I'm aware... > >>>> > >>>> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-freemarker/graphs/contributors?from=2015-07-01&type=c > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> What if I'm hit by a truck tomorrow? We can hope that if there's a > bug > >>>>> that concerns many, then someone will eventually fix it. After all > the > >>>>> owner (ASF) won't be gone, the release infrastructure is there, etc. > >>>>> But as far as non-bugfix development goes, it's certain that things > >>>>> would stop. Some may say that that's OK for a project that's > >>>>> backward-compatibility-locked for 12 years now (the 2.x line is > >>>>> actually 14 years old). > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Well, I'd say that's critical, but the community of a project is more > than > >>>> the developers who code. And the Freemarker community is much bigger > than > >>>> what you could think. > >>>> > >>>> For instance if you consider my personal case: I volunteered for > mentor > >>>> because I knew the project for so long. I even code some extensions ( > >>>> http://marmotta.apache.org/ldpath/template.html). Definitively I used > >>>> Freemarker much more in the past than currently, but Web development > has > >>>> changed a lot, moving more stuff to the frontend (10 years ago we > didn't > >>>> have AngularJS). > >>>> > >>>> So I'd say there are many people like me out there, using every day > >>>> solutions based on Freemarker. People who are not that close to the > source > >>>> base, but familiar enough to be able to jump in at any time a provide > a > >>>> patch. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> But of course that's just slow death if a > >>>>> project can't counter its old design problems and can't evolve to > >>>>> tackle new problems anymore. So indeed 2.x should switch to > >>>>> maintenance eventually (but ATM there are still things that can be > >>>>> done in 2.x), but only to give place for 3.x. Anyway, how to catch > >>>>> long standing developers? I don't think that 2.x have a real chance > >>>>> for that, because of all the legacy code burden piled up. (Some > Apache > >>>>> projects have many paid contributors, but I think FM isn't the kind > of > >>>>> project that can have that, so it's important that the developers > want > >>>>> to fiddle with it for free.) So the 3.x jump will be necessary, and > >>>>> then, maybe, we can have a developer base growth (template engines > >>>>> isn't hot topic anymore, so I just mean having a few developers > >>>>> around). But 3.x is far away (if it will happen at all), and we can't > >>>>> hang around in the incubator forever. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Well, we can consider 2.3.x feature-complete, and 2.3.25-incubating a > >>>> maintenance release. The world has change a lot in template business > in > >>>> these 14 years. But I'm pretty sure FreeMarker has its place there, > and 3.x > >>>> could bring some many great ideas that may attract potential new > >>>> contributors. And that's what I see as future of this project. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> So, do you believe there's any chance to graduate with the current > >>>>> developer base? > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Definitively that has been always the major issue with this podling. > >>>> Honestly I'm not sure. But following with all my argumentation that > the > >>>> community is much bigger that what shows the development team, I'd say > >>>> could be at least discussed with the IPMC. > >>>> > >>>> Looking forward to hear every body else's opinions. > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Sergio Fernández > >>>> Partner Technology Manager > >>>> Redlink GmbH > >>>> m: +43 6602747925 > >>>> e: [email protected] > >>>> w: http://redlink.co > >>>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >
