Great email from Alan. Alan, feel free to share these feelings with the group. I am inspired that you have similar thoughts as many of us (not that I ever even questioned that ;-) ].
Thanks. Jeff Davanum Srinivas wrote: > Alan, > > Forwarding to dev with your permission. Let's just bring all issues > into the open and use this opportunity to vent, clear our heads and > hopefully help put our best foot forward from now on. > > thanks, > dims > > On 6/9/06, Alan D. Cabrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> This is a private email so that I have things clear in my head. If you >> think that it's useful to post to the dev group, that's cool. You have >> my permission to forward this email on to whomever you'd like. >> >> Davanum Srinivas wrote, On 6/9/2006 3:03 PM: >> >> > Bruce, >> > >> > If you are again asking for my input here it is....It's plain and >> > simple. If there is a forum for discussion, it should be open as much >> > as possible. If it's not possible because of either monetary or space >> > constraints, then at least there should be some notification whereby >> > one can give their input on topics at hand via email and/or IRC. >> >> How was Aaron's email [1] not a notification? Is there a better way to >> provide notes on what one talked about at a conference? >> >> > >> > If i had known about significant discussions, i'd have brought up the >> > topic of how/what my thoughts are on a JAX-WS implementation and the >> > lack of a credible JAXB2 implementation. So the "Notes from JavaOne" >> > [1] would have brought out the problems we will be facing implementing >> > both JAX-WS and JAX-RPC (and using a single SAAJ impl) which could >> > have been discussed at this forum. I really have to thank David who >> > followed up by initiating discussion on axis-dev [2] after JavaOne. >> >> You still have time to discuss. What in [1] made you think that the >> notes were carved in stone? >> >> > Clearly there was a private list of people who were invited and an >> > agenda was drawn up which was not shared with the whole dev team >> > either privately or publicly. Typically in all Apache projects, we >> > call it a F2F, pre announce it, discuss via email/wiki some of the >> > items before hand and thrash out the rest in person. >> >> Yep. That was a not too good. But people can still discuss things even >> afterward, no? People who have these private meetings run the risk of >> having to discuss the round if issues a second time if they are not >> inclusive. >> >> > >> > All it would have taken is *ONE* lousy email asking for input on items >> > to be discussed either publicly or privately to all committers. Hiding >> > behind facade's like "oh, it was a vendor meeting" or "meeting >> > friends" or "We just left out just one person" or "Oh, There was a >> > BOF" or a thousand other excuses don't count. >> >> >> I think that what you see are individuals' interpretation of what the >> get-together was for themselves. If everyone had the *exact* same story >> line then, that would have been truly suspicious. >> >> I gotta say. I'm kinda scratching my head about this. I was at the >> meeting for the last few minutes but was an active participant in its >> formation and I think that it was handled "ok", not great, but "ok". >> Nothing was decided and things were reported back to the group. >> >> Now, compare this to the plugins.com where actual code started going in >> and I got grief from fellow PMCers for even pointing it out. I learned >> that this came about from a discussion at TSS and it was never >> publically reported to anyone. This is what everyone should be craping >> their pants about. >> >> Bringing the two, to be sure there are others, together points out that >> Geronimo is in serious trouble. Pointing out that single J1 meeting >> makes it seem kinda "shrill". >> >> Thoughts? >> >> > All you need to think >> > about is whether you are being fair to everyone who is engaged in the >> > project or not. By "bring the community together", hope you don't mean >> > that we just go back to our merry ways and not learn a lesson or two >> > from the strong actions by the pmc chair. >> > >> > Guys, there is something wrong we are doing. Let's fix it!!!!!!!! >> >> >> +1 >> >> > >> > [1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=geronimo-dev&m=114807250831613&w=2 >> > [2] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=114840811100003&r=1&w=2 >> >> >> I am not disagreeing that Geronimo is in serious trouble. I totally >> agree with you. >> >> Regards, >> Alan >> >> > >
