On 10/17/07, Alexei Fedotov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Xiao-Feng, I like the idea of EIOffice+Harmony to have a limited > > Harmony bundle, no problem. > > Please, no more surprising Internet downloads for MS office > applications. Sorry, I meant EI. > :-)
Alexei, it shouldn't be a surprise because it was clearly explained in the release notes. Thanks, xiaofeng > > On 17 Oct 2007 15:07:54 +0400, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On the 0x372 day of Apache Harmony Tim Ellison wrote: > > > Egor Pasko wrote: > > > > On the 0x372 day of Apache Harmony Spark Shen wrote: > > > >> 2007/10/17, Sean Qiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > >>> I suggest we maintain our classlib modules (jar) in a central > > > >>> repository. > > > >>> So we can just get a kernel bundle, and it will download the required > > > >>> jars. > > > >> > > > >> +1 for kernel bundle. > > > >> > > > >> We can add options for the default build task. Using these options to > > > >> determine whether > > > >> to include source code ,debug information etc. > > > >> > > > >> And what about and a new build target 'build-core' for only those > > > >> kernel > > > >> bundles necessary > > > >> to start JRE. > > > > > > > > Sorry, guys: > > > > -1 > > > > > > > > First of all, -1 to removing debug information. When you need it, it > > > > is time when you really need it and you are really stuck and blaming > > > > your JRE for various aspects if debug info is not there. > > > > > > > > Secondly, to the kernel bundle: > > > > > > > > 1. how many people want to download just 1/3 of the JRE and then keep > > > > looking of the damn slow download when running some app? This would > > > > be an unpleasant surprize because people just did not ask you to go > > > > web. Looks suspicious, slow and ugly. I do not like unpleasant > > > > surpizes. > > > > > > > > 2. it is a lot of work. We will need to identify places that can be > > > > stripped, tweak classloader to download stuff instead of throwing > > > > complains. Ideally, we will need to measure user experience: how > > > > many users did not want to download more, and what we can do to > > > > increase the number of users? Seems pretty hard. So, unless > > > > somebody has a good design in their mind, I would object to this > > > > effort. And if they have, please, publish the design on wiki. > > > > > > > > 3. how about permissions? anyone who runs a Java app is sometimes > > > > asked for a root password to update the JRE? not very convenient > > > > > > > > 4. I believe Linux package managers would anyway stick to the full > > > > package (otherwize it turns to a nightmare of permissions, security > > > > issues and such). So, we won't get any lovers of this stuff in the > > > > Linux community, which is completely not impressing. > > > > > > > > Slow, ugly, surprizing unpleasantly, vulnerable to attacks. gosh. > > > > > > > > If Sun likes that, just let them have fun. > > > > > > I think you are being a bit harsh Egor. I have to admit that this is > > > not where I would invest my time because I think there is plenty of > > > low-hanging fruit to be picked for space savings in the current code, > > > and that producing a downloadable version is not going to solve that > > > problem. However, if that is Xiao-Feng / Sean's itch then I'd let them > > > go at it. > > > > > > It would have to be available as an option since I also agree that there > > > are many occasions when people just want the whole thing. > > > > +1 to keep the whole thing at least as an option > > > > Sorry for the tone.. did not want to shout so loudly, just tried to > > write down all reasons and think about conscequences aloud so that if > > Xiao-Feng & Sean itch, they won't get surprized :) > > > > But, anyway, my dislike of self-downloadable stuff is still there. > > > > On the src stuff. Yes, really, I talked on JDK. But now just curious, > > don't people use JRE+Eclipse often? Is there a reason not to? (except > > debug and sources) Sorry, I just have no idea about numbers. > > > > I computed the total size of src jars in the last snapshot: 8.5M, at > > and 43M is the size of the snapshot. So, we can reduce the bundle > > size by 20%. Well, seems reasonable. (In case no developers use JRE) > > > > On the debug info stuff: I think, we should keep it, agreed to > > Tim. Maybe, there is a reason to have all sources separately in case a > > user decided to develop, having JRE is downloaded, just not to fetch > > the whole JDK. > > > > Xiao-Feng, I like the idea of EIOffice+Harmony to have a limited > > Harmony bundle, no problem. And, overall, if you like all the > > complications I tried to list above, I won't shout against (given that > > the full non-self-downloading bundle for JRE with debug info is there > > as an option, and full non-self-downloading JDK too, of course) > > > > -- > > Egor Pasko > > > > > > > -- > With best regards, > Alexei, > ESSD, Intel > -- http://xiao-feng.blogspot.com
