Thanks Mike. If htrace goes to the attic I would be inclined to support removal. (Do we keep in branch-1 and below, remove in 2 and up, and document the removal?) And we should bring this to the attention of the Hadoop and Phoenix dev communities as well. Let me write a note to dev@phoenix.
On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Mike Drob <[email protected]> wrote: > HTrace committer reporting for duty... > > I think that HTrace is lacking momentum right now. If there's renewed > interest in it, then somebody really needs to speak up. I've started an > attic discussion on the list there, based on my recent experiences with the > project, though. > > If you're interested, follow along or chime in at > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ff87eb11bbfc3ca27a83c0ab377459 > 767a46175447f763b1bf052987@%3Cdev.htrace.apache.org%3E > > Mike > > On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Andrew Purtell <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Yes, tracing is built on HTrace so as long as the Hadoop, HBase, and > > Phoenix builds include the same 'generation' of htrace, spans are > available > > at all of those layers. > > > > âI guess the question (and implication) is we have zero confidence that > > HTrace will ever be any good. That correct? HTrace is dead? If the answer > > is yes, then I don't have an objection. If the answer is no, or maybe, > then > > I object to removing tracing support without a replacement of equal > > viability.â > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:37 AM, Stack <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Sean Busbey <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Say we replaced it with brave for 2.0, Phoenix tracing through to > hdfs > > > > would be just as broken as if we pulled it out entirely, no? > > > > > > > > > > > That is my understanding (Correct me if I am wrong but Phoenix does not > > > show traces through hdfs [1]). > > > > > > St.Ack > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. https://phoenix.apache.org/tracing.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 15, 2017 7:18 PM, "Nick Dimiduk" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Agreed that ripping with no replacement would be too extreme and > > short > > > > > notice for 2.0. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:14 PM Andrew Purtell < > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their users, > > > > > > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be > well > > > > > > received. > > > > > > > > > > > > The counter point to this more mindfulness on the part of HBase > > devs > > > to > > > > > > interface compatibility impacts would go a long way. See > > HBASE-18431 > > > > > > and PHOENIX-4076. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ripping out entirely the only tracing interfaces available is a > > more > > > > > > extreme example, although not without cause. (The state of > HTrace.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Nick Dimiduk < > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMHO, we should be actively pruning half-implemented, testless, > > > > > ownerless > > > > > > > code. HTrace queues up well for that chopping block. Long back > I > > > > wanted > > > > > > to > > > > > > > see this particular feature though, but I cannot volunteer for > > the > > > > role > > > > > > > currently. If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to > their > > > > users, > > > > > > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be > well > > > > > > received. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I question the choice of HTrace as the tool for the job, given > > the > > > > > > relative > > > > > > > lack of activity in that project vs. the myriad alternatives > out > > > > there. > > > > > > > HTrace has been incubating for 2.5 years, has seen only 5 > > releases, > > > > > with > > > > > > no > > > > > > > release in the last 18 months. I haven't evaluated the field > in a > > > > > while, > > > > > > > but there's probably something with much more mature tooling > and > > > > > support. > > > > > > > For instance, openzipkin/brave has much more activity more > > > recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -n > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM Stack <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Andrew Purtell < > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doc update to indicate HTrace is unfinished is fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We could do this. Update jar and doc it as broke. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phoenix uses HTrace to support query tracing. It "works". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nit: I didn't think this was htrace. It was an old version > > pulled > > > > > into > > > > > > > > phoenix world where it lives storing to phoenix table > reporting > > > on > > > > > > > > phoenix-only spans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A colleague made > > > > > > > > > a contribution to HDFS to fix a case where spans could get > > > > muddied > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > the WAL. We are carrying that patch on top of 2.7 for the > > > moment > > > > > but > > > > > > > IIRC > > > > > > > > > it's in 2.8. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Removing all of our HBase level spans doesn't make sense to > > me > > > > when > > > > > > > spans > > > > > > > > > at HDFS level will not be removed, nor at the Phoenix > level. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The spans in hbase are just hanging until they get the > htrace-4 > > > > > revamp > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > the dots get connected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We hollow out > > > > > > > > > the middle. I think this is worse than leaving things at a > > half > > > > > > > finished > > > > > > > > > state. At least in the half finished state it might get > > > finished. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nod. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the most pressing issues? I'm up for supporting an > > > > > "HTrace" > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > well. I'll need your (community) help for getting patches > > into > > > > > Hadoop > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > need be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HTrace needs care and a viewer (zipkin I think now it has > come > > > back > > > > > > > alive). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HBase needs a couple of narratives wired through. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ditto HDFS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > St.Ack > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Stack <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Purtell < > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -1 to removing HTrace from HBase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > âtâ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you thinking Andrew? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not. As is, we > > mislead. > > > We > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > off > > > > > > > > > > the impression that hooking up hbase and hdfs via trace > > > tells a > > > > > > story > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > request traversals when it at best you'd get a wonky > view. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need work before > we > > > can > > > > > > > suggest > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > our users this system is viable debugging. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you reckon Andrew? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > S > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes < > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 > > > into > > > > > > HBase > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > far > > > > > > > > > > > > from satisfying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really > > > > > > maintained > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > migration to version 4.x is quite hard ( > > > > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) > and > > > > looks > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > task > > > > > > > > > > > > is not getting much closer to the goal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and > if > > we > > > > > still > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) > > > then > > > > > > start > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > the baseline. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have created a ticket for this task: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601 > > > > > > > > > > > > The removal could be quite fast and reach version > 2.0.0 > > > > too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you all think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Tamaas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning > torn > > > > from > > > > > > > > truth's > > > > > > > > > > > decrepit hands > > > > > > > > > > > - A23, Crosstalk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn > > from > > > > > > truth's > > > > > > > > > decrepit hands > > > > > > > > > - A23, Crosstalk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from > > > truth's > > > > > > decrepit hands > > > > > > - A23, Crosstalk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Best regards, > > Andrew > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's > > decrepit hands > > - A23, Crosstalk > > > -- Best regards, Andrew Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's decrepit hands - A23, Crosstalk
