We now have an ethos page[1] with a reprint of the ASF CoC. Unless someone disagrees, I think including the state of the community in podling reports (and hopefully board reports soon) and "state of the project" discussions are great ideas that we can take to heart.
[1] http://hop.apache.org/community/ethos/ On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 8:10 AM Julian Hyde <[email protected]> wrote: > There are no ASF guidelines for this, just my personal opinion: we should > not just publish a CoC, we should live our values. > > As for the podling reports (and the board reports, when Hop graduates), > whoever writes the report should be thinking about the health of the > community. If someone has been trolling the lists, or if a discussion among > community members has become so heated that members have left the > community, or if the community isn’t diverse and inclusive, then we need to > fix something. > > In Calcite, we elect a new PMC chair every year (on the anniversary of > graduation) and around the same time we have a “state of the project” > discussion covering everything from technical goals to the state of the > community. This is not required by ASF policy (in fact Calcite is the only > project that does this) but in my opinion it works well, because it helps > keep our thinking fresh. > > Julian > > > > On Apr 12, 2021, at 10:51 PM, Bart Maertens <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > I agree the discussion is useful. > > Let's start by adding the ASF CoC and some Q&A about it to the website, > > point to that page in the monthly roundup for April and gradually adjust > > when we need to. > > About the "discuss every so often": are there any ASF guidelines on this, > > e.g. add a (very brief) section about CoC related items to the podling > > reports? > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 11:50 PM Julian Hyde <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> The “welcome bot" is a nice idea. But I also think discussions such as > >> this email thread are very useful - they remind people that we care > about > >> making this a welcoming place. Let’s have these discussions every so > often > >> - and not just when there has been an issue. > >> > >> I forgot to mention that some projects *do* have their own code of > >> conduct, so we don’t have to stop with the ASF one. (In fact CouchDB had > >> one first [2], and the ASF adopted it foundation-wide.) > >> > >> Julian > >> > >> [2] https://couchdb.apache.org/conduct.html > >> > >>> On Apr 12, 2021, at 12:33 PM, Bart Maertens <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> We talked about adding a welcome bot to the chat a while back. > >>> That needs to happen anyway (will start a different thread), could be a > >>> good opportunity to point new joiners to the ASF CoC. > >>> > >>> There could be bot options for periodic reminders, or to let folks > >>> acknowledge (once) they've read and agree with the CoC. We'll need to > >> look > >>> into it. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Bart > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 9:08 PM Matt Casters <[email protected] > >> .invalid> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Thanks for the link Julian. We should do our best to communicate that > >>>> we're following this CoC policy as a sort of constant reminder. > >>>> Adding it to our community pages on the website is great. Perhaps > >> periodic > >>>> reminders by a chat bot? > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> Matt > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 5:46 PM Julian Hyde <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Thanks for starting this conversation, Matt. FYI, ASF has a CoC [1] > >>>>> and it automatically applies to the Hop community, but it's great if > >>>>> Hop wants to extend it with its own culture/values. > >>>>> > >>>>> Julian > >>>>> > >>>>> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 7:40 AM Matt Casters > >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Dear Hoppers, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> In our short history we've been on the receiving end of very little > >>>>>> negative feedback. It's been a very fun experience to help each > other > >>>>> out > >>>>>> and the source code in general is very accomodating to doing your > own > >>>>> thing > >>>>>> in your own plugin without getting in the way of others. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> However, when negative feedback does come on occasion (it does and > it > >>>>> will) > >>>>>> we need to be a bit more prepared for it. As such I would like to > >>>> have > >>>>> a > >>>>>> developer/community "code of conduct" on our website so that we can > >>>> help > >>>>>> people to react appropriately to negative feedback. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I believe that in essence any conflict in software or architecture > is > >>>> an > >>>>>> opportunity for improvement. I would very much like such an > attitude > >>>> to > >>>>> be > >>>>>> the leading principle in this scenario. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Can we come up with a list of advice for recipients of negative > >>>> feedback? > >>>>>> Or perhaps a checklist? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - Take a deep breath, read the message a few more times. Do not > reply > >>>>>> immediately. > >>>>>> - If you can not give a constructive response, consider not > responding > >>>> at > >>>>>> all or with a question asking for clarification. > >>>>>> - Empathically consider that the person in question is perhaps > >>>>> frustrated / > >>>>>> using a foreign language / stressed out / in a pinch / ... > >>>>>> - If you feel you are bothered by the feedback; can you figure out > >>>>>> why exactly this is? The tone of the feedback should be > disregarded. > >>>>> Its > >>>>>> actual content should be taken seriously. > >>>>>> - Consider the opportunities for improvement of our software. A lot > >> of > >>>>>> people take software as is and are not even aware that we can fairly > >>>>>> quickly change a lot of things. > >>>>>> - Consider creating JIRA cases based on the feedback to capture > >>>> negative > >>>>>> feedback with bug reports, improvements or even taks for > architectural > >>>>>> changes. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Anyway, feel free to pile on. > >>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>> Matt > >>>>> > >>>> > >> > >> > >
