Another thing to note is that JDBC is a JSR which means it is a
specification specifically aimed at being implemented by the wider
community so I don't think we should worry too much about trademark
infringement.

And as Andy notes other Apache projects like Derby provide JDBC
implementations and call them JDBC drivers.

Rob



On 8/26/13 2:16 PM, "Claude Warren" <[email protected]> wrote:

>For trademark example see:
>http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=221
>and
> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/jdbc/overview/index.html
>
>Claude
>
>
>On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Andy Seaborne <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> A bit of poking around:
>>
>> * "jdbc" isn't generally marked (tm) on Oracle sites, when Java is, but
>> there is
>> 
>>http://docs.oracle.com/javase/**tutorial/jdbc/index.html<http://docs.orac
>>le.com/javase/tutorial/jdbc/index.html>
>> but that is the only one I found.  Other place the "Jaav" bit is, not
>>not
>> the rest.
>>
>> * Apache Derby don't have JDBC tm'ed.
>>
>> Claude (anyone) - do you have a specific reference to where "JDBC" is
>>used
>> as a mark?
>>
>>         Andy
>>
>>
>> On 26/08/13 19:36, Rob Vesse wrote:
>>
>>> True, much to the frustration of developers everywhere
>>>
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>> On 8/26/13 11:23 AM, "Claude Warren" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>  OK I can see your points.  but really, what users RTFM? :D
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Claude
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Rob Vesse <[email protected]>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I'm not sure what else we would call it?  All the other vendors call
>>>>> their
>>>>> products JDBC drivers so I don't see why we can't
>>>>>
>>>>> 1 - Yes, I actually specifically used SquirrelSQL for debugging
>>>>>during
>>>>> development because it was also open source and I could attach the
>>>>> debugger to SquirrelSQL and see what was going on when things didn't
>>>>> work.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've also successfully used the driver with some other JDBC tools.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 - Probably not, since those framework typically generate SQL and
>>>>>SQL
>>>>> is
>>>>> explicitly not supported
>>>>>
>>>>> 2/3 - No, it is a type 4 driver in that it is pure Java but it is not
>>>>> JDBC
>>>>> compliant because by definition that requires supporting SQL.  I have
>>>>> clarified the main page of the documentation to state this.
>>>>>
>>>>> The documentation is quite clear that this is a SPARQL over JDBC
>>>>>driver
>>>>> so
>>>>> I don't see that there is much room for confusion providing users
>>>>>RTFM.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rob
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/24/13 3:50 AM, "Claude Warren" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  I am concerned about the name.  Jena JDBC implies a level of
>>>>>> interoperability with existing JDBC based tools.   I also note that
>>>>>>
>>>>> JDBC
>>>>>
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a trademark which I believe is owned by Oracle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I have a few questions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    1.  Am I able to use the Jena JDBC driver to access a Jena based
>>>>>>
>>>>> triple
>>>>>
>>>>>>    store using a standard JDBC tool like SquirlSQL?
>>>>>>    2. Am I able to use the Jena JDBC driver within a JPA framework
>>>>>>like
>>>>>>    Hibernate?
>>>>>>    3. Does it pass the JDBC test suite (mentioned here:
>>>>>>    
>>>>>>http://docs.oracle.com/javase/**tutorial/jdbc/overview/index.**html<h
>>>>>>ttp://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/jdbc/overview/index.html>)
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>
>>>>> at
>>>>>
>>>>>>    least a major subset of the tests?  I have not yet located the
>>>>>>test
>>>>>> suite
>>>>>>    itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the answer is no to any of these questions I wonder if the name
>>>>>>is
>>>>>>
>>>>> not
>>>>>
>>>>>> going to confuse potential users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Claude
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Stephen Allen <[email protected]>
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hi Rob,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks pretty good.  A few comments:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    a) Typo in second code block in section "Basic Usage | Making a
>>>>>>> Connection":
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> s/"jdbc:jena:men:empty=true"/"**jdbc:jena:mem:empty=true".
>>>>>
>>>>>>    Same error on drivers.html in the second code block of the
>>>>>>> "Available Drivers | In-Memory" section.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    b) Would suggest changing the section titles under Basic Usage
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>> instead read: "Establishing a Connection", "Performing Queries",
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>> "Performing Updates".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    c) Suggest adding try/finally blocks for both the Query and
>>>>>>>Update
>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    d) Suggest adding an example of transactions for TDB connections
>>>>>>> (one that contains both read/update queries would be cool).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Stephen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Rob Vesse <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've put together some basic documentation which is in staging at
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>http://jena.staging.apache.**org/documentation/jdbc/index.**html<ht
>>>>>>>>tp://jena.staging.apache.org/documentation/jdbc/index.html>if
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>
>>>>>> wants to review
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rob
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 8/23/13 11:26 AM, "Rob Vesse" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  On the JDBC front I think it is essentially ready to go in this
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> release,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> my main concern is integrating it into the build.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Right now it is not called out as a module of the top level POM
>>>>>>>>>so
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> not automatically get built by mvn unless you go and build in the
>>>>>>>>> jena-jdbc directory yourself.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However it is a slow build at ~5 mins or a modern machine like my
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2011
>>>>>
>>>>>> MacBook Pro, and much longer on older/heavily contended machines
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>
>>>>>> Apache build servers.  Therefore my concern is whether developers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>
>>>>>> willing to stomach a longer build on their local machines?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One thought I had was about using maven profiles, right now I
>>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>> following in my local uncommitted top level POM:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <profiles>
>>>>>>>>> <profile>
>>>>>>>>> <!--
>>>>>>>>> This is the dev profile, it only builds the common modules and
>>>>>>>>> does not build the slow building JDBC modules or the distribution
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> packages
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -->
>>>>>>>>> <id>dev</id>
>>>>>>>>> <activation>
>>>>>>>>> <activeByDefault>true</**activeByDefault>
>>>>>>>>> </activation>
>>>>>>>>> <modules>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-parent</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-iri</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-core</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-arq</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-tdb</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-text</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-sdb</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-fuseki</module>
>>>>>>>>> <!-- Slow to build - exclude from default dev build -->
>>>>>>>>> <!-- <module>jena-jdbc</module>-->
>>>>>>>>> <module>apache-jena-libs</**module>
>>>>>>>>> <!-- Don't build distro package every time -->
>>>>>>>>> <!-- <module>apache-jena</module> -->
>>>>>>>>> </modules>
>>>>>>>>> </profile>
>>>>>>>>> <profile>
>>>>>>>>> <!--
>>>>>>>>> This is the complete profile, it builds everything including slow
>>>>>>>>> building modules and
>>>>>>>>> the distribution packages.
>>>>>>>>> This profile should be enabled when cutting a release
>>>>>>>>> -P apache-release,complete
>>>>>>>>> -->
>>>>>>>>> <id>complete</id>
>>>>>>>>> <modules>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-parent</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-iri</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-core</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-arq</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-tdb</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-text</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-sdb</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-fuseki</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>jena-jdbc</module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>apache-jena-libs</**module>
>>>>>>>>> <module>apache-jena</module>
>>>>>>>>> </modules>
>>>>>>>>> </profile>
>>>>>>>>> </profiles>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Would people be OK with going with something like this?  It would
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>
>>>>>> that by default we only build the common modules and then when we
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> come to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> do releases or want a more thorough build we can build the
>>>>>>>>complete
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (or even add a third release specific profile?).  We may want to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> little more discussion about which modules go in which profile and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>
>>>>>> many profiles we want to have.  I can commit what I have now and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> can iterate on it?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Getting back to JDBC specifics, no there is not any website
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> documentation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> yet.  However the javadoc is pretty comprehensive so with a couple
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> basic web pages written up may be sufficient, I will try and at
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>
>>>>>> stub those pages out today.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Rob
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>claudewarren>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>>http://www.linkedin.com/in/**claudewarren<http://www.linkedin.com/in/cl
>>>>audewarren>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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