- see footer for list info -<
Wouldn't pictures of objects in a captcha be far more difficult for bots to
crack? e.g. you have to type in the names of 2 or 3 items in the captcha
which vary each time. Random shapes and blobs are thrown in with some
overlapping. Some examples for each visit:

1) cow, dog
2) car, house, truck
3) chair, mouse
4) train, plane

A library of different styles of images will stop bots learning each object,
plus a bit of "Where's Wally" will make it very tough for bots.

Just an idea.

Gary.

On 8/18/06, Damian Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>- see footer for list info -<
As Kola mentioned, there are serious accessibility issues with a visual
captcha... it's utterly unusable for a blind person.

"To reframe the problem, text is easy to manipulate, which is good for
assistive technologies, but just as good for robots. So, a logical means
of trying to solve this problem is to offer another non-textual method
of using the same content. Hotmail serves a sound file that can be
listened to if the visual verification is not suitable for the user."
http://www.w3.org/TR/turingtest/#sound -- it would be a very useful web
service if anyone were to develop it, visual/audio captcha...

Like your idea Dom, anyone got an answer?

d

Snake wrote:
>> - see footer for list info -<
>>
> Well it has certainly stopped the pests on our contact and feedback
pages. I
> can't imagine anyone is going to bother cracking your captcha protection
> unless it is a really worthwhile cause, and on most sites, why would it
be,
> all that effort just just to send spam to one person?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Wild
> Sent: 17 August 2006 19:54
> To: Coldfusion Development
> Subject: Re: problems with using captchas (was [CF-Dev]: Help ..!)
>
>
>> - see footer for list info -<
>>
> I guess that's the main crux. For weblogs (arguably the main victims)
> they're terrific and I will stand up and defend them till the cows come
> home.
>
> ...and making the images was a lot of fun for the community me and the
> Tazewell had on one of the particular weblogs concerned at the time,
which
> is always a bonus.
>
> On 8/17/06, Charlie Arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>> - see footer for list info -<
>>>
>> I'd like to speak up in favor of captchas, whether graphic or not. As
>> to the usability issues, there are indeed other approaches out there
>> to the traditional graphic, and to those who decry how difficult they
>> are to see, I'll note that most captcha tools offer the site owner a
>> way to simplify the presentation.
>>
>> Now, if someone would argue that doing so makes it "easier to crack",
>> or as some of those links below assert, they feel that "captchas are
>> crap because all of them can be broken", I have a different argument
>> entirely.
>>
>> I'm not talking about there use in a bank or other important site.
>> Like many, I just want to use a captcha to limit random (and
>> incessant) spam on my blog comments and feedback. Do I really need to
>> worry that some spammer's going to take the time to try to "break in"
>> to my site?
>>
>> Put it another way, I don't want to use a captcha as a double-key
>> deadbolt door to keep out intruders. If they want to break in, they
>> will, just like in a house.
>>
>> I simply want a screen door, to keep out the random pests.
>>
>>
>> /charlie
>> http://www.carehart.org/blog/
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 6:52 AM
>> To: 'Coldfusion Development'
>> Subject: problems with using captchas (was [CF-Dev]: Help ..!)
>>
>>
>>> - see footer for list info -<
>>>
>> I think its worth mentioning that as well as the accessibility issues
>> with using Captchas
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/turingtest/
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/2004/Talks/0319-csun-m3m/slide1-0.html
>>
>>
>> There are projects demonstrating how many popular captchas can be
>> easily decoded....
>>
>> http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~mori/research/gimpy/
>>
>> http://sam.zoy.org/pwntcha/
>>
>> I only mention this because there seems to be a false sense of
>> security that accompanies using Captchas.
>>
>> Kola
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:dev-
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Swingewood
>>> Sent: 17 August 2006 08:37
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: [CF-Dev] Help ..!
>>>
>>>
>>>> - see footer for list info -<
>>>>
>>> Er.... I dunno. I got a complaint that some bod further along the
>>> chain
>>>
>> was
>>
>>> getting loads of emails and was asked to investigate .....
>>>
>>> I have started to look at captcha but also thinking about writing my
>>> own based on images and magic words - I need to stay as accessible
>>> as
>>>
>> possible.
>>
>>> However these are all nicey things at present. I have so much to do
>>> that this will have to sit on the back burner for a while.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your help and suggestions
>>>
>>> Regards - Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Damien Gallagher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> Reply-To: Coldfusion Development <[email protected]>
>>>> To: Coldfusion Development <[email protected]>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: [CF-Dev] Help ..!
>>>> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:21:52 +0100
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> - see footer for list info -<
>>>>>
>>>> Out of interest, what are they getting out of submitting, say, a
>>>> feedback form loads of times?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rich Wild wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> - see footer for list info -<
>>>>>>
>>>>> oh, I see, that's what a captcha is..
>>>>>
>>>>> God I'm so old, I can't keep up with these new fangled wizbits.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, if like me, you're not a fan of plugging other people's
>>>>> things into your site without knowing what they do, that's
>>>>> basically the theory.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/16/06, Rich Wild <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "The only difficulty would this is get-aroundable by bots,
>>>>>> assuming any bot writer cares enough about your site to spend the
>>>>>> time rewriting
>>>>>>
>> their
>>
>>>>>> bot to regex your form field to get the magic word."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aha - so don't use words, use images.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've done this before, and its a little fiddly, but practically
>>>>>> 100%
>>>>>>
>> spam
>>
>>>>>> safe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the page hit, read a directory full of images that have magic
>>>>>> words written on them, the file called the same as the magic word.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get a random one of those filenames:
>>>>>> <cfset session.secureImageName = qryImageNames.name[randrange(1,
>>>>>> qryImageNames.recordcount)]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> set that to a session and display the image in the form -
>>>>>> however,
>>>>>>
>> don't
>>
>>>>>> display it using simple <img src="images/secureImages/HYU78.jpg">
>>>>>>
>>>>>> instead, use a CF page that serves up an image with the
>>>>>> appropriate mimetype using cfcontent
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <img src="serveSecureImage.cfm">
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In serveSecureImage.cfm, you read the session variable (
>>>>>> session.secureImageName ) you set before and return that using
>>>>>>
>> cfcontent.
>>
>>>>>> This means that bots can't simply read the html on the page and
>>>>>> find
>>>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>>>> filename and use that in the input as the magic word.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alternatively, use an image making tag to write a randomly pulled
>>>>>> magic word from a database or equivalent and simply serve that -
>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>
>> just
>>
>>>>>> stops you having to have a directory full of images, but I had
>>>>>> fun
>>>>>>
>> making
>>
>>>>>> those.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the magic word posted in the form don't fit the served image -
>>>>>> don't send the mail!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richio McStitchio
>>>>>> Chief Neckchief
>>>>>> http://www.theideasbarn.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/16/06, Duncan Cumming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - see footer for list info -<
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not a fan of captchas.  Generally inacessible, unless you
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> make
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> an audio version available, and even then not the nicest hoop
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>
>> make
>>
>>>>>> users
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> jump through.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One method I've seen elsewhere, but haven't used myself, is an
>>>>>>> additional input box:
>>>>>>> The magic word is blah.  Please enter the magic word.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only place I've seen this method is the mysociety sites, e.g:
>>>>>>> http://www.mysociety.org/?p=103
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only difficulty would this is get-aroundable by bots,
>>>>>>> assuming
>>>>>>>
>> any
>>
>>>>>>> bot writer cares enough about your site to spend the time
>>>>>>> rewriting
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bot to regex your form field to get the magic word.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Duncan Cumming
>>>>>>> New Media Developer
>>>>>>> Customer Relations Management / Education Fife Council 700
>>>>>>> 4105 / 01592 414105
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16/08/2006 14:25 >>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - see footer for list info -<
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a contact form which submits an email (cfmail) The form
>>>>>>> is being hit by a web bot and sent hundreds of times
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there any way I can stop this?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> regards - paul
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>
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