On 05.04.2017 19:47, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: > Hello, > > On 05.04.2017 13:30, André Silva wrote: >> We've received the GNUcash file [0][1] from our delegate (fauno [2]) >> with our current expenses, assets and profits. I have a few questions >> for you, since I have some confusion and I think you could could help us >> clarify. There are several users worried about our donations and gains. >> We also have a policy about transparency for our community which donors >> feel were neglected. Here are the questions: > > The GNUcash file you refer to was created by me to help Parabola keep > track of donations and expenses related to the Parabola fund handled by > Fundația Ceata. Before that, I was monitoring the Donations wiki page > and helping fauno and you to keep it accurate and up-to-date, and also > improve it (as it can be seen in the page history, e.g. [4][5][6]). For > each notification of a new donation for Parabola I have received, I have > informed fauno promptly and I'm sure he can confirm this. > > [4] > https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=16404&oldid=16333 > [5] > https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=16750&oldid=16404 > [6] > https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=16752&oldid=16751 > > I've created the GNUcash file after the first big expenses (with the > occasion of the FISL conference) to further help Parabola. Since then > I've regularly updated and sent the GNUcash file to fauno. I consider > all of this proof of the transparency I've showed Parabola. > > Besides this, I've helped Parabola get sponsorships from companies, like > Robofun (BeagleBone) [7], Gandi (domain) [8] and Technoethical, having > noticed that the donations Parabola receives are mainly from individuals > (and some of them are also volunteering time to Parabola). > > [7] > https://www.parabola.nu/news/robofun-sponsors-parabola-arm-port-with-a-bbb-board/ > [8] https://www.parabola.nu/news/gandi-sponsors-parabola-domain-name/ > > I have tried to make available to Parabola as many donation methods as > possible, including PayPal. > > I've also helped promoting Parabola at conferences such as FOSDEM and > Coliberator [8]. > > [8] https://www.parabola.nu/news/gandi-sponsors-parabola-domain-name/
This should have been [8'] [8'] https://www.parabola.nu/news/parabola-will-take-part-in-coliberator-2016/ > I never took credit for any of this, and because you have insisted, I > told you you can credit Fundația Ceata instead. Also, I've never used my > position and my help to influence the internal affairs of Parabola. > > This introduction I made is to help people reading this public thread to > get the picture. > >> * Why were all of our BTC converted to RON? > > Parabola hackers have decided that Fundația Ceata should handle all > Parabola assets, including and specifically also donations in the > cryptocurrencies Bitcoin and Faircoin. Below are excerpts from my > communication with fauno on the matter: > > On 24.11.2015 01:07, Tiberiu wrote: >> Have you decided, will the virtual coins be handled by Ceata? > > On 24.11.2015 01:09, fauno wrote: >> apparently, i'll send you the details as soon as a i can. > > On 24.11.2015 01:11, Tiberiu wrote: >> Okay, meanwhile I'll setup a new Bitcoin wallet for Ceata and I will >> document myself about Faircoin to create an account for this currency > > On 24.11.2015 01:15, fauno wrote: >> i can send you the electrum seed so you can regain control of the >> existing btc wallet. > > On 24.11.2015 02:13, Tiberiu wrote: >> I have set up Faircoin with Electrum. How should we go about >> transferring control for this currency? > > On 24.11.2015 02:23, fauno wrote: >> i don't have a seed for this, give me the new address and i'll >> transfer you the fair and change it on the wiki. you have to >> exchange it for ron, no? > > On 24.11.2015 09:01, Tiberiu wrote: >> That's correct. > > On 24.11.2015 14:25, Tiberiu wrote: >> I have no experience with faircoin. How >> long does confirming take and how can I convert them into RON (or >> USD/EUR)? Should I convert them to bitcoin first? Or there is a direct >> way too. I haven't researched yet, maybe you know. > > On 24.11.2015 16:29, fauno wrote: >> is it really needed to exchange them to ron? > > On 24.11.2015 16:48, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: >> Sadly, yes, for accounting. > >> I found an email about it >> letting us know it was being done [3]. > > That's incorrect. I wasn't letting you know "it was being done", rather > that _it has to be done_. I was replying to a donor in Bitcoin who was > expressing his concerns about the "legal headaches" that his donation in > Bitcoin can give to a nonprofit (Fundația Ceata). > > In the e-mail you mentioned I've publicly explained on this mailing list > the reason why Fundația Ceata cannot handle BTC without having to > convert them into the national currency of Romania, RON. > > On Tue Nov 3 13:45:45 GMT 2015, Tiberiu wrote: >> For sure it's not a problem the originating currency is BTC. It will, >> however, raise the question in the authorities' eyes: where did you have >> USD to pay for that product? No bank statement showing you had that >> money. Next question from the authorities: do you have a separate >> deposit you are not declaring? The answer would be yes, we have a >> separate wallet, in BTC. :-P > > I would also like to remind everyone that as per §5 of our Fiscal > Sponsorship Agreement [9]: > >> 5. **Parabola Fund Management / Performance of Tax-exempt Purposes.** >> All of the assets received by Ceata under the terms of this Agreement >> shall be devoted to the purpose of Parabola, within the tax-exempt >> purposes of Ceata. The Parties agree not to use its funds or operate >> in any way which would jeopardize the tax-exempt status of Ceata. > > [9] > https://git.parabola.nu/ceata-agreement.git/tree/Parabola+Ceata_Agreement.markdown > >> I remember, we agreed about it with you for legal reasons > > Yes, you (Parabola hackers, including fauno and you) were aware that BTC > needs to be converted to RON and you have agreed with this for the > reasons I mentioned above. > >> (at that time I wasn't an investor, and >> didn't understand about economics). > > I wonder how this is relevant to running a nonprofit. Or is it just > self-glorification. > >> However, I don't remember when it >> was done, if it was **all** or just some of the BTC, for expense, annual >> declaration, etc. > > There is no mystery about this. Check the GNUcash file and see the > screenshot attached for verification. > >> Could you let us know if there was a consensus about this and if there >> are references from Romanian laws stating that it is mandatory? I >> realize this was a long time ago, but it is an important question for >> our community. > > Bitcoin is not a recognized currency in Romania and few countries in the > world give it a legal status [10]. > > [10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country > > A donation in Bitcoin received by an individual becomes donation for > Fundația Ceata only when it is deposited in its bank account. Until > then, it doesn't exist in Ceata's accounting, can't be declared, can't > be used for covering expenses. > >> * What is the issue if we were to keep donations inside our bitcoin >> wallet (a.k.a. "limbo") until we would declare it (eg. annual >> declaration or when someone will use it for expenses) to avoid wasting >> our gains? > > Here you are assuming that the Bitcoin price only goes up and that it > doesn't vary dramatically at times. You assume that the best practice is > to exchange BTC at the end of each fiscal year. > > Anyway, this is exactly what I've done in December 2015, as everyone can > see in the screenshot attached and in the GNUcash file. I have exchanged > BTC in RON at BitcoinRomania [11], to my knowledge the only Bitcoin > exchange in Romania. > > [11] https://trade.bitcoinromania.ro/ > > In January of 2016, Parabola has received a donation of 2 BTC, which was > double the amount of bitcoins Parabola had received by December 2015. To > avoid any risk to be judged for waiting too long to exchange BTC while > its price could have dropped, I have exchanged the ~2 BTC the same > month, in January 2016. I considered it's safest to exchange in January, > so that the exchange rate is closest to the one I exchanged BTC one > month earlier. > > Finally, there is minimum amount of RON that one can sell BTC for, and > since the BTC donations Parabola has received by end of August 2016 were > only 0.15 BTC, I have exchanged this small amount of BTC the same time I > have exchanged my own BTC. > >> * If all money converted from bitcoins (BTC) to RON was for legal >> reasons, then why weren't our faircoins (FAIR) converted too? > > As you can find in the excerpts from my communication with fauno on > setting up cryptocurrency donations for Parabola, we couldn't find a way > to exchange FAIR to any intermediary currency to be exchanged in the end > in RON. Considering that the amount of 1100 FAIR (see second screenshot) > had and still has a small value, now being less than $50 USD [12], I > didn't consider it's relevant to anyone for me to lose more of my time > on finding a solution. This was my evaluation back in December 2015 and > I haven't checked later if the situation has improved and if now there > are any options to exchange FAIR to BTC/EUR/USD intermediately or to RON > directly. > > [12] https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/faircoin/ > >> * If converting our crypt-coins to any currency such as RON, is needed >> we would like to receive references from Romanian laws for better >> clarification and to avoid misunderstanding inside our community. >> Several anon donors asked me for references in private. Could you give >> us references about those points from Romanian laws? > > The answer to this question is included in my explanations above. Since > BTC is not regulated in Romania, I can only point you to accounting > questions on forums such as this one [13]. > > [13] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=699556.0 > >> * Why did we convert our assets to RON instead of EUR? Is it a better >> currency than EUR (we have an account in EUR too)? Is it for some legal >> reason? Could you give us references about this? > > All fiscal declarations are in national currency, RON. Fundația Ceata's > EUR bank account exists for the sole reason we accept donations in EUR. > If it doesn't exist, our bank opens an EUR account and charges a big fee > of €15 EUR for the emergency opening of an account in foreign currency. > This is why we keep EUR and USD accounts for Ceata. > > Romanian national currency RON is quite stable, 1 EUR = [4.3,4.6] RON in > the past 2 years [14]. That is a €0.05 EUR variation (a ¢5 variation). > > [14] http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=RON&view=2Y > >> * We would like to receive money as paid hackers (not only for >> non-profit things) since we have plans to offer services such as >> technical support, pentesting, webstore, videogames, etc. Is it possible >> to still do this with Ceata since you are a non-profit entity? > > Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015 for a term of 1 (one) > year and it has been automatically renewed on 24 September 2016. I > remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola any fee for handling > its donations and expenses. > > Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal sponsorship (such as > FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under their umbrella with a > standard fee of 10% of income. That is around €250 EUR for the income > Parabola has received so far. > > Considering that there is a number of Parabola hackers/donors > unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is our decision to > terminate the current agreement. Please consider this the "sixty (60) > days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata, as per §7. > >> * If it isn't possible, then we should open a legal entity (eg. >> offshore) for Parabola and declare our gains in our residential >> countries or another similar legal ways (eg. micro-business), then my >> question is: Could be it a trouble for you since we will receive profit >> assets and your non-profit ones? Could help us giving us references from >> Romanian laws to help understand it better? > > As per §7(a), as of now you are free to look for a "Fiscal Sponsor > Successor", which has to be "another *nonprofit* organization which is > tax-exempt". As per §7(b), we will only transfer the Parabola fund to a > nonprofit, that communicates "its willingness to sponsor Parabola in > writing to Ceata". > > As per §7(c), "Termination Without a Fiscal Sponsor Successor" by the > end of the 60 days, will render the Parabola fund "inactive for any > motive other than transference to a Fiscal Sponsor Successor". > >> * Since we have our GNUcash file already sent by fauno, could you send >> to fauno all paperworks, bills, invoices, currency exchange copies >> declared by Ceata about our expenses? It's very important, since >> Parabola has a policy about transparency for our donations. These should >> be posted on our wiki so that donors are no longer worried. > > No problem. I believe most of the bills and invoices are already public, > and I will look in the archives for the rest of them. It will all be > ready by the time we transfer the Parabola fund to the Fiscal Sponsor > Successor. > > Tiberiu > >> [0]:https://repomirror.parabola.nu/other/parabola-accounting/monetary-donations/20170111/ >> [1]:https://git.parabola.nu/accounting.git/ >> [2]:https://www.parabola.nu/people/hackers/#fauno >> [3]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-November/003456.html
signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
_______________________________________________ Dev mailing list [email protected] https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
