While I somewhat agree with both the points of Furkan and Alexandre, I am not sure which way you are leaning: Should we pull off the band-aid or not? And do no other committers have an opinion here?
-Grant On Apr 5, 2014, at 6:25 PM, Furkan KAMACI <[email protected]> wrote: > | I think an interesting side-effect issue here is user perception. I > | feel that ElasticSearch (yet, them) get a lot of points not only > | because of features (not discussing that here) but because they > | actually have taken time to put a polish on the SEO, onboarding and > | other human perception aspects. > > that is exactly true. Search that on Google: solr search parameters and have > a look at the results. Then search that: elasticsearch search parameters. You > can feel that there has been done a work for SEO at elasticsearch side. > > When I started to learn Solr I read every thing, every thing that I can find. > These include Solr wiki, books, websites about Solr and every e-mail at mail > list. However is it usual that there were still some pages at wiki that I've > not seen it before. I've clicked every link at wiki but there was some > hidden(!) pages that I could not achieve to see it. For example every body > knows that Shawn has a page tells something about GC tunning for Solr. Do you > know that how to reach that page when you start to read the wiki? > > Reference guide is pretty good. It is like a book for Solr. You start to read > and when you finish it you get a good knowledge about Solr. My suggestion is > that: We can rich the Solr guide with links to some external pages if it is > necessary. On the other hand we can design a nice web site that explains Solr > feautures as like elasticsearch. > > I "personally" separate people into four main categories who works with Solr: > > First category: He uses Solr, wants to improve search performance, tunning > etc. etc. but do not know the implementation details very much. > Second category: He is interesting about scalability, tunning etc. of Solr. > Third category: He is interesting about linguistic/search part of Solr > (Lucene). > Forth category: He is interesting about developing Solr. > > So, a wiki should point to the people who uses it, who wants to operate it, > who wants to improve search benefit and who wants to develop it. My personal > idea is that: first category is very important too. When you read the guide > of Elasticsearch it is simple and explains the main things (i.e. you can > compare the analyzer page at Elasticsearch and Solr). People want to startup > a system and do not want to do much more thing (I know it is impossible). We > can help address to such kind of audience too (I know that Solr and > Elasticsearch audince are not same). I mean a web page explains Solr as like > elasticsearch and a guide (with links to other resources) that addresses to > both four category would be nice. > > All in all I would want to help Solr for such kind of documentation (I can > work with Alexandre collaboratively). It would be nice if we have something > like that. > > Thanks; > Furkan KAMACI > > > > 2014-04-05 6:21 GMT+03:00 Alexandre Rafalovitch <[email protected]>: > +1 on consolidating to the Reference Guide and figuring out the way to > make wiki a lot less visible. But for a completely different set of > reasons than discussed already. > > [[rant-start]] > > I think an interesting side-effect issue here is user perception. I > feel that ElasticSearch (yet, them) get a lot of points not only > because of features (not discussing that here) but because they > actually have taken time to put a polish on the SEO, onboarding and > other human perception aspects. > > Solr's messaging is - like many of Apache projects - deeply technical, > self-referential and on the main path puts Development before Use > (literally, by the order of the wiki sections). Which is _no longer_ > representative of the users' needs. > > Reference guide is a large step in the right direction. Commercial > distributions also do their best to do the messaging right, even if > often at the expense of pushing Solr into an implementation detail > (Cloudera!). > > But I think this is a case of the tide raising all (Solr-based) boats. > Somebody with UX skills can probably deconstruct and reconstruct the > user experience and the same information will have a lot more impact. > > This even applies to technical issues as well. Elastic Search has > great success talking about schema-less design and Solr relegates its > equivalence to a small section deep in the Wiki/Guide. Same with > real-time updates. That's because the site/documentation is organized > from the implementation rather than impact points of view. > > If somebody has resources to throw at this, I would start from the UX > and user-onboarding part. Maybe even do that for both Lucene and Solr > to emphasize common links. And I would be happy to work with someone > on that too. Maybe, there is even a need for a separate > super-duper-happy-solr-path mailing group to specialize on that. > Something that commercial companies can temporarily throw other > non-dev resources at, when required. > > [[rant-end]] > > Regards, > Alex. > P.s. There is a LOT more to the rant, with specific suggestions. And I > am walking my talk too (book, solr-start, my nascent mailing list, and > a ToDo list to last me next several years of fun projects). > > Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ > Current project: http://www.solr-start.com/ - Accelerating your Solr > proficiency > > On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Mark Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > > I’m not too worried about locking anything down, but the current situation > > is quite confusing. It can be hard to tell what docs you should be looking > > at for a new user. > > > > I’ve started putting big warnings and links on a couple important pages for > > the old Wiki, but we should really a do a lot more to make it clear that the > > old wiki system is not our documentation. All signs should point to cwiki. > > > > -- > > Mark Miller > > about.me/markrmiller > > > > On April 4, 2014 at 9:46:02 AM, Grant Ingersoll ([email protected]) wrote: > > > > > > On Apr 3, 2014, at 6:57 PM, Yonik Seeley <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 6:24 PM, Grant Ingersoll <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Lock down the Solr Wiki > > > > [...] > > > > the Wiki should simply be tips, tricks, etc. and is NOT official > > documentation and committers, for the most part, don't worry about curating > > content there. > > > > > > These two things seem incompatible. If wiki pages on tips, tricks, > > etc continue to be permitted, how does one "Lock down the Solr Wiki"? > > > > > > I mean lock down the current stuff, move it to an archive area (see if we > > can make it read-only) and replace the landing page with just the > > community/tips/tricks sections that are there. > > > > > > -Yonik > > http://heliosearch.org - solve Solr GC pauses with off-heap filters > > and fieldcache > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Grant Ingersoll | @gsingers > > http://www.lucidworks.com > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > -------------------------------------------- Grant Ingersoll | @gsingers http://www.lucidworks.com
