Hi Alexandro,
first of all, thanks for agreeing to the funding of the meeting. I hope
that we can go on with the process now and that nobody is upset. In good
faith, I just booked the hotel and the train, so prices don't explode. :-)
I rather move the conversation to a new thread, about the discussion
on face to face vs virtual meetings. Is easy to say that face to face
is better, is harder to justify who should be involved into this face
to face and why. Does his tittle makes him eligible just because he is
the lead, or his nearbyness is the main factor that can make him
viable for him even if he/she is not the best person just because
"face to face is better".
Well, in the past we never judged a funding request by the title or role
of a person. Sure, we checked who requested the funding, but we never
looked at titles to base our decision on. I agree that often people with
titles/roles request funding, but that's mostly due to the fact that
active people usually hold these "jobs" inside the project, and
therefore also have to request funding quite often.
While I agree that some sort of "controlling" is important, I also would
like to think about trust. Most is based on trust. When we as budget
holders get asked for travel funding for a specific event in a foreign
country, we normally don't know much about it -- neither the country,
nor the event, and also not about local prices. I have to trust the
people when they tell me this event is important and they have long and
expensive flights. Of course, I do some checking, but without trust, it
wouldn't work.
I also see that we are in a slightly different situation, all of us.
While I enjoy living in Germany, thus being able to attend many events,
having quite cheap transportation and lodging costs compared to other
countries, and lots of OOo stuff is going on there, I see that others
who live far away have it much harder, and their demands and needs are
quite different.
On the other hand, some people enjoy a good income or getting funded by
their employer, while for me paying a trip to Hamburg means spending
more money than I have in one month. No cinema, no going out etc. for
one month. I think we should try to accept, respect and understand
everyone's situation.
I also see that there are many different views on various topics. It's
no secret that I'm in favor of having even *more* personal meetings,
because to my experience, it helps a lot. I also accept that others
cannot make it due to time reasons, or do not want to because of carbon
footprint and saving the environment. Everything is a valid reason.
We all work on the same common goal, and some work one way, others
choose another way. I think it can't harm to work on things in parallel
and again, trusting people. When I think it's important to have some
face to face meetings or attend several events, I wish for some trust.
The same is true when others have different requirements. We are a
project full of so many different people, so one opinion might not fit
everyone.
I'm talking openly because we're an open source project and we should
decide on our goals, ways and also money together. As said, the budget
is not my budget, it is our budget.
Openly said, and I see that this might not be ok for everyone, my wishes
for the future would be: (Not for me personal, but for everyone in the
project)
- Being able to attend more events and present ourselves
- Being able to have more face to face meetings when needed
- But also investing in a conferencing infrastructure to save money and
carbon footprint, as well as enable people living far away to join
This is only my idea, and I'm sure not everyone is happy with it. :-)
However: The marketing project, IIRC, will most likely have the
responsibility of a much larger travelling budget this year, assigned by
the council, so let's spend it wisely.
I still have the feeling that by being able to attend more things in
person (again, not myself, but many people inside the project), we can
gain a lot of attention. Look how often other projects meet -- it
doesn't do them any bad, but the opposite. It might not work for us, but
I have this feeling, and I guess it is worth a try.
Ok, so much for today. :-) I'd love to keep up this discussion and also
talk about it at our planned phone conference.
Then there is the question of price, how expensive is expensive, for
people be very concern with price on paying a company to provide
infrastructure, we are very loose to grant travel budgets. example,
nothing wrong on having 2 600 euros meeting a year but we would think
that is too expensive to pay 12000 euros to a company for virtual
services.
At the moment I think it would, yes. 12.000 € a year is 1.000 € per
month. Looking at how many conferences we are likely to have at the
moment, this would mean several hundred € per conference. Way too much,
IMHO.
I asked various times who would be generally interested in conferences,
without knowing details of technical implementation yet. Roughly about
20 people replied. For spending 12.000 € a year, that's too less...
The other issue is that we see no problem wasting money on
transportation companies, but how about spending money on our own OOo
people. I would like to discuss paying for a ticket vs buying a SIP
phone, Webcam, USB professional microphone for a project lead or
Marcon.
As said, for me, it wouldn't help, as you would have to buy me a
complete office where I could work without being disturbed... others
have no internet connectivity, so it doesn't help for them. I even know
of some ISPs who block VoIP. Everyone has different requirements, and we
should have an open ear for them.
I much rather spend money in Sophie, Eric, or John than in Luftansa or
ibis... but that's just me.
This comparison is wrong. We're not talking about Sophie, Eric or John,
we're comparing snom, Grandstream, AT&T with Lufthansa and IBIS. It's
all a point of view...
Again, please let's continue this discussion and check what everyone's
needs are.
Florian
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