Well I guess this is more than what I expect from a ping, and had silently followed the discussion. I have also talked with community developers of OOo (non oracle employees that work on the OOo project). And have discussed OOos future and also internal systems that now seems to be like a being in an isolated chamber of a sinking ship. Sure you are isolated from the noise, but the whole infrastructure is starting to come to a halt.
The issue here is how much of the infrastructure really depend on Oracle's infrastructure where admins stop managing the process and build machines stop producing new builds. At the same time, I do share some of the views on how to move forward. My personal view (which is not set in stone) is that OOo will need to either start generating infrastructure on the hands of the community and out of Oracle's management. I do have my questions regarding the whole topic of money, sure we do need money, but I doubt we need 10m like louis mentions. I also doubt is worth to do mostly a maintenance. And have been looking the other way which is dismantle the software, re-engineer the processes on more modern language and be able to adapt pieces of it to more flexible paradigm of development. Other teams like Mozilla did this with Mozilla's original browser. And cost around 2 years of quiet period and just minor releases until Firefox came to town. OOo has very old html engine, very old graphic engine and also seems that most of the efforts in the past (UX, www-at-odf) didn't really make an impact on the application. I don't think this was a lack of will but rather a lack of communication between the company to recruit contributions. I think one big fault of OOo is the lack of power to consolidate contributions from developers."The year of the developer" never really came and we are still stuck on thinking money first and code second. Which is what I think leadership should shift to a more development centric manner. On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 3:05 AM, Louis Suarez-Potts <lsuarezpo...@gmail.com>wrote: > All, > > The OpenOffice.org Community is obviously in a state of change. I think a > crucial element to us all moving ahead is to establish and then act on, in > good faith, those areas where we—OOo and LO communities (aspects of the same > thing) can work together and reconcile differences. > > Let me start by stating that we, Stefan Taxhet, André Schnabel, Florian > Effenberger, and I, will be holding a teleconference later this week to > further put into place those things that need to be done to move ahead. > > The Most Important Thing from my perspective, is that the broader community > understand that they are contributing to building this together, and coupled > to that, that our users, public sector as well as individual consumers, and > private companies big and small, have the confidence to continue using ODF > implementations based on OpenOffice.org source. > > I think that all of us here in OOo-land appreciate the problems OOo was > born with and never really corrected, and that these relate as much to how > code and other contributions are encouraged and also accepted (or not). And > I think that to move forward, especially now in light of Oracle's 15 April > announcement, means that we can re-evaluate elemental procedures so that the > overall community can work together. > > But the basic issues I referred to before still apply—money, in short—and > on that subject, we need to hold fire and be patient. There are numerous > unknowns circulating, still. However, we can, and we shall, in the > meanwhile, talk. > > To reiterate: My personal goal is to have a community project whose > identity is not a proxy for this or that company but the unique ensemble of > all its contributors, bound together by a common goal of building the best > and most universally usable set of productivity tools implementing the ODF. > And that we look to the future while tending to the present: satisfy the > needs of the desktop users but cock an eye to the sky and imagine ODF > implementations that freely move us into Cloud. > > -louis > > > On 2011-05-20, at 14:03 , Bernhard Dippold wrote: > > > Hi Louis, all, > > > > it is great, that you still feel responsible for the OOo community - > > even if the way you perform this responsibility causes some thoughts... > > > > You have been Sun's OpenOffice.org Community Manager > > and later on Oracle's Community Manager until you left Oracle > > some months ago. > > > > As far as I know this post has never been open for election by the > > community, it has been given to you by your former > > employer and I don't know about it's validity after you left Oracle. > > > > But I want to address you as OpenOffice org community member - a > community I myself feel affiliated for more than six years. > > > > Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> On 2011-05-13, at 04:39 , Ian Lynch wrote: > >> > >>> I know this might be a bit of an emotive topic for some, but > >>> wouldn't it be an idea to open up dialogue with the LibreOffice > >>> people? A split community was never an ideal situation from a > >>> simple logical point of view. > > > > A split had to be accepted when the foundation had been set up, but TDF > > has always been open to any contributor and invited not only Oracle but > > all the people hesitant to join a broader basis with less influence by > > single companies. > > > >>> Ok, there are emotional wounds to heal but talking about > >>> possibilities without any commitment on either side can't do any > >>> harm. > > > > I fully support any discussion between OOo and TDF community members. > > In my opinion our split community can be reunited quite easily, if > > everybody looks for the goals she/he has with our office suite and how > > we can achieve them. > > > >>> Maybe this is already happening? > > > > In an open community (or if you prefer: among two open communities) this > > should done on the mailing lists, so thank you for this question. > > > > Actually I hope that there will be more friendly discussion among TDF and > OOo community members, leading to the perception of positive interaction and > common goals. > >> > >> Actually, Florian and I are discussing that exactly. The days of > >> stiff difference are over with; were over with when Oracle renounced > >> OOo as a revenue source. And in their lieu, discussions of > >> reconciliation. > > > > Sorry, not being a native speaker, I can't really understand what you're > > talking about - and Google translator doesn't help very much either. > > > > So you mean that the time where Florian was "persona non grata" for > > OpenOffice.org is over, because Oracle dropped commercial support for > > the community? > > > > And does reconciliation mean that you start to imagine, that the TDF > > founders might have been right in working on the ten year old vision of > > an independent foundation *before* Oracle might drop any support for the > > community? > > > > We still don't know if dropping commercial support means to close the > > entire infrastructure and sell the trademark to somebody else (I still > > hope they don't, but it is a monetary issue, and Oracle is said to be > > aware of costs and money). > > > > Without the Document Foundation our community's situation would be even > > more problematic. > > > > It took several months to create a working infrastructure - of course > > there are tasks not finished by now, but the infrastructure is able to > provide the product for download and support the community in their work. > > > >> To be sure, there are still personal differences. These are, to me, > >> not irrelevant but ought not to stop the development of the code by > >> the larger community. > > > > Every now and then during the last 10 years there have been personal > differences, but they have always been considered less relevant than the > work we did and still do for our community. > > > > Code development is done by the larger community. > > > > While the gap created by the uncertainties after the Oracle announcement > > seems to get broader and broader with no visible release activities > > after beta1 for OOo3.4.0 (two days before this announcement), the > > community developers working on LibreOffice removed bugs (even quite > > visible bugs) on their version, so the development is going on. > > > > > >> What counts, what makes up, what comprises that larger community is > >> of some debate. We need a lot of money to develop the code. > > > > Right. We need corporate contributors. Some of the already contribute to > > LibreOffice, overcoming the hindrances of one main contributor with > > nearly unlimited control. > > > >> We need, that is, far more than LibreOffice or TDF or any single > >> company can probably provide. > > > > LibreOffice and TDF are no company, they just do, what we should have > > done earlier in the past: Provide a basis where contributors can do > > their work, where companies and corporations can share their interest, > > but know that none of them will have the force to define any rules or > > modify the foundations mission. > > > > Based on this ideas, TDF raised 50.000 Euro (mainly by small donations - > > probably users and small companies) in only 8 days. > > > > Imagine large corporations start to support the community, because they > > don't have to fear the influence of any single main sponsor - provide > > money, code contributors, helping out the community with other issues... > > > >> Figure more than 10M USD/annum. That's to develop the code, test it, > >> distribute it, and move ahead into areas that go beyond the limits of > >> legacy. > > > > It's a challenge - but based on the efforts the community already did by > > creating TDF it is much more likely to be achieved than if the few > > people staying here try to raise such an amount on their own. > >> > >> Unfortunately, for something like OOo, a "community effort," still > >> needs huge buckets of money. It's not about corporations, per se. > >> It's about needing to get dedicated developers, one way or another, > >> working on the code, so that it can be reliably produced, and > >> satisfy the most demanding expectations. > > > > Right - that's what is done with LibreOffice. > >> > >> Meanwhile, I continue to drive ODF interest, and continue to > >> represent OOo at ODF events; and continue to represent, as much as I > >> can, as energetically as I can, to the world. > > > > You drive what? > > > > You still try to make the world believe that LibreOffice is nothing but > > Novell's contribution to Microsoft's universe because there is a very > > small area of code development based on a contract among them. > > > > You don't do ODF and the entire FOSS ecosystem a favor if you declare, > > that there would be no reliable alternative to MS Office anymore for > > people fearing that the lack of activity in the OOo project might cause > > their adoption to fail. > > > >> I have no animus toward LibreOffice, though I do have my share of > >> doubts; > > > > What you tell us here and in your blog, is much more than animus - > > please see below. > > > >> but my spirit is stamped with OOo, its community, its goal, of > >> providing reliable and reliably, the best productivity tools there > >> are to the most people. > > > > My goals have not changed during the last years, and I'm not alone - > > there is a large number of community members having spent hundreds or > > thousands of hours in their spare time for this community and its goals. > > > > But we don't insist on the name - it's the community's spirit that lives > on. > > > > Create and maintain the best open source office productivity suite. > > > > Be part of the community that stands behind this suite and have > > influence by real merit: Every community member contributing for more > > than just a short period is able to elect the Board of Directors and be > > elected to it. > > > >> > >> -louis > >> > >> > >>> > >>> [...] > >>> > >>> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Louis Suarez-Potts > >>> <lsuarezpo...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> [...] > >>>> > >>>> It is not even the case that other projects using OOo technology > >>>> have that much greater insight. They do not. > > > > This clearly addresses LibreOffice and TDF. > > > >>>> They may have more activity, but absent the energy of > >>>> production, there is no production of energy. > > > > And you tell the world that there would not be productive work over > there? > > > > Together with the accusations against the Novell employees, ignorance of > > the large number of other developers, and repeatedly mentioning your > > "doubts" about LibreOffice you create an image that doesn't describes > > you as possible contact for reconciliation and re-unification of our > > large community. > > > > If Oracle wants to drop support for the infrastructure and code > > development (and I can't understand the cessation of the release cycle > > and the mailing list migration differently), this will be the only way > > to survive as the open source alternative to MS Office: > > > > Coordinate and integrate the community's work in both parts of the > > community back to the open and integrative community I love to work for > > during the last 6 years. > > > > But you are not the person I want to be represented by. > > I want to work together with the entire community in order to overcome > > this very dangerous situation not only for OpenOffice.org, but for the > > broader FOSS community and their acceptance in public too. > > > > Your comments, blogs and interviews don't show any integrative ideas, > > but try to damage LibreOffice and TDF on different levels instead of > > using the unique chance to re-unite our community leading to the highest > > strength and best position for our office suite in the current tangled > > situation. > > > > Best regards > > > > Bernhard > > > > PS: You probably know that I neither have any formal role in the OOo > community nor in TDF. This mail is just my personal opinion as community > member trying to further our office suite in any way I can. > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org > > For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org > > with Subject: help > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org > For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org > with Subject: help > -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
