On Aug 6, 2010, at 2:23 PM, Ralph Goers wrote: > So even though I'm on vacation this week I took the time to get the code from > git and read the wiki. Now I am even more concerned, even though I have read > everyone's responses. > > Aether is NOT a replacement for the Wagon, from what I can tell it replaces > all the artifact resolution handling. This is handled through methods like > RepositorySystem.resolveDependencies. This relegates Maven to the status of > pretty much just a plugin processor. I would be much less concerned if > aether-api was hosted somewhere outside of Apache or was even > javax.repository or somesuch thing. But aether-impl, etc belong in Maven, IMO. > > Brian and I spoke at the last ApacheCon about the need to enhance the pom and > the only way we could see to do that was to have a new project descriptor in > addition to the pom. The ability to do this - and is something I have been > planning on working on once 3.0 is stable - would now be out of the control > of this project. >
Aether is a general library purpose and incomplete without processing for the particular target system. Whether that be properties files or POMs. The interface that needs to have an implementation is http://github.com/sonatype/sonatype-aether/blob/master/aether-impl/src/main/java/org/sonatype/aether/impl/ArtifactDescriptorReader.java The implementation that is required for making Aether work for Maven is http://github.com/bentmann/maven-3/blob/repo/maven-artifact-descriptor/src/main/java/org/apache/maven/repository/internal/DefaultArtifactDescriptorReader.java You'll see that it's clear on the Maven side of the fence, and that someone could use Aether without a single dependency on anything in Maven. I think you people need to dig a little deeper instead of making these knee jerk reactions. As such what the fuck, we'll release beta-2 as it is in trunk and let people catch up. > Although I like the structure of the code very much I am inclined to do one > of two things: > 1. Vote -1 for inclusion. > 2. Take the code as it is under the Apache license and check it in to Maven's > SVN. The only thing preventing this would be the -1 vote I would expect from > Sonatype employees. An alternative approach to this would be to check it into > a new incubator project. This would only require a majority vote of the > incubator PMC and would be allowable under the license. However, I don't > consider this a viable option as it would be too disruptive to the incubator > unless Sonatype supported this, which it is clear they do not. > > I believe in "The Apache Way" - Community over Code. I am not in favor of > adopting a direction that relegates the Maven project to almost the point of > irrelevance. However, I also believe that the community should not be blocked > by a single individual so if I am the only one who feels that gutting the > Maven project is a bad thing then I will simply abstain from voting. But > frankly, the arguments in favor of hosting Aether outside of the ASF has left > me wondering why the proposal wasn't to move the whole project out of the ASF. > > And for what it is worth, I have appreciated when those of you who are > employed by Sonatype have explicitly included that in your replies on this > topic. > > Ralph > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 8:54 AM, John Casey wrote: > >> >> All due respect, but that dodges the question of separating and >> standardizing the API from the implementation. It also dodges the discussion >> about who sets the design of the repository format and the API spec used to >> access it. >> >> You're asking the Maven community to give up one of its greatest creations - >> the repository format that has become a de facto standard - and become >> completely dependent on a project whose future may be uncertain. It's easy >> to talk about companies as these fixtures in the market, but the fact is >> we're talking about giving complete control over the Maven repository API / >> format to a start-up. Start-ups are not known for their stability. Then, the >> company in control _may_ decide (unilaterally) to move the whole shebang to >> Eclipse. There's absolutely no role for Maven developers in this model, >> unless they go out and re-establish their merit on a new project. >> >> I'm not talking about the merit to contribute implementation details - >> though the ASF concept of non-expiring merit argues strongly against losing >> access to that. What I'm talking about is the right to contribute to the >> design of the repository format, API, and SPI (now that I notice that's >> separate from the API). The language we use to share artifacts and metadata >> should not be under the sole control of a private entity. >> >> Sure, there haven't been too many contributors to Maven 3. But how much of >> that has to do with the velocity of work done and paid for by Sonatype, the >> dramatic and repeated shift in direction by those paid contributions >> (mercury for example), the need to chase code from SVN to GitHub, to still >> other GitHub repositories, and the lack of discussion of the design of any >> of it? >> >> It makes me uneasy to see how much this has become a skunkworks type of >> project, where much of the development takes place behind closed doors and >> then gets dumped on the Maven community. >> >> Maven contributors established the foundational concepts (and code, from >> what I can tell) for Aether; Aether is a refactoring of that essential >> design and format. If you expect Maven to use Aether, then the Maven >> community deserves some say in the future of the format and API. That's my >> opinion. >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org > Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------- Jason van Zyl Founder, Apache Maven http://twitter.com/jvanzyl --------------------------------------------------------- A man enjoys his work when he understands the whole and when he is responsible for the quality of the whole -- Christopher Alexander, A Pattern Language
