On Mon, 2017-06-26 at 11:49 +0200, Patrick Hilt wrote:
> Dear all,
> It's clear there is a need to discuss. Unfortunately Miracl has gone
> through a range of changes which impeded our support for Milagro. However,
> we still do believe that Milagro is a viable project and would like to see
> it succeed, albeit with a more focused scope. Looking at the news, it
> certainly seems a necessity to have an official, open crypto focused
> project.
Agreed there. The question is not whether it's a good project, but
whether it's an *Apache* project. I should be sorry to see it retire,
but I think if it's to stay, it needs some more committment from
the project team.
Miracl's support for Milagro does raise an issue here. One of the
most important characteristics of an Apache project is that it is
NOT so dependent on any single company as to dry up if that company
focuses elsewhere.
> Overall, I totally agree with Go. We need to find a way to communicate and
> manage a project that works for the contributors. Our "issues" are
> particularly around real-time communication and GitHub integration (i.e.
> having bi-directional sync'ing with Apache Git in place, which we've tried
> to find about a while back).
I would echo what Anthony said in reply to Go, and add a few points.
Real-time communication channels like Slack are great, up to a point.
But they don't provide the same browsable, reviewable record as
an email archive (even if publicly archived, real-time chat is
too noisy). And Milagro's slack is in private company space
most of which is no longer open to me, let alone to a newcomer
who would like to lurk quietly before mustering the confidence
to participate.
Regarding Github integration, that situation has advanced during the
time Milagro has been incubating. The project might like to raise
the question again on general@incubator. Along with the relationship
of Apache and Github JIRA: my current impression is that the github is
the more active, though still low-volume.
> Along those lines, I'd be happy if we could have some guidance from the
> community.
>
> As for "reviving" and moving forward I'd like to propose we
> 1. determine communication channels beyond just the mailing list; the
> Milagro Slack channel is not viable imho, since people with random email
> domains can't add themselves. So we 'd need something else... again, input
> here would be much appreciated!
IRC is a popular baseline. Lots of Apache projects use Freenode.
Other channels are also acceptable: can Slack not be configured
to permit guest users?
> 2. determine how we're going to manage source code and stick with that
> (github vs. git); from my perspective I have a strong preference for
> github. So any info on bidirectional sync or best practises / approaches
> from other Apache projects would be hugely appreciated
general@incubator would be a good place to raise that. My own exposure
to full github integration is from Trafficserver, which was one
of the Apache projects to trial it. When Milagro first entered
the incubator, infra were clear: it wasn't yet being rolled out
beyond the trial projects.
> 3. take stock of where we are currently in terms of contributors, pending
> code, etc.
Indeed. How has staff turnover at Miracl affected the roster?
In an ideal world it shouldn't, except insofar as new developers
may be recruited to relevant work.
> 4. chart a course forward in small incremental steps based on the above
We have a chicken-and-egg here. An active and healthy community
draws interest. The hard part is to bootstrap that community.
Currently we have a codebase that draws some interest, generally
through github, but at a modest level. The individual who provides
fast and excellent replies to most of the github issues has (I think)
never put in an appearance at Apache.
> I believe it would be useful to do 3. and 4. in-person / in-call, at least
> partially.
Happy to give it a try, with a couple of reservations:
(a) Concern that it might reinforce a top-down process that works in
a company context but the team needs to get away from at Apache.
(b) A hint of deja-vu.
[Go wrote re: merge of NTT codebase]
> > Please advise us how we should communicate.
This mailinglist is always the primary channel for project
communication. Issues raised by a large volume of NTT code
to merge with the current (Miracl) codebase might be a very
good start to substantive activity here!
Both Miracl and NTT may need to make efforts to resist a
natural temptation to make decisions in private and only
communicate to the list once decisions are made!
--
Nick Kew
