Kovas Boguta https://twitter.com/kovasb, from the Clojure/AI community,
graciously took some time to review the PR for the clojure package.

He had some insightful feedback and high level questions that I thought
might be of interest to the larger dev mailing list.

https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11205

Feel free to join in on the discussion here or on the PR.

- Carin

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 6:49 PM, Carin Meier <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm fine with whatever process works best and what makes everyone the most
> comfortable.
>
> I've completed one of the requests for code coverage and integrated the
> cloverage, (https://github.com/cloverage/cloverage), plugin in the PR
> branch. I've published the results to the confluence page to help with
> transparency and give everyone a better idea where the level of testing is
> currently.
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/
> Clojure+Package+Contribution+Needs
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 6:24 PM, Marco de Abreu <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Exactly, that's what I'm proposing. Having the migration in multiple
>> separate PRs which are done in sequence. This would mean that the initial
>> PRs might not be tested.
>> We could make the factors you mentioned acceptance criteria to be moved
>> out
>> of contrib.
>>
>> -Marco
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 3:17 PM Naveen Swamy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > I did not suggest to do it at once. I am not comfortable to merge code
>> > without good tests, documentation and examples that is not to say
>> Clojure
>> > codebase does not have that.
>> > All that you are saying can happen in separate PRs if you want to break
>> it
>> > up.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:07 AM, Marco de Abreu <
>> > [email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > The problem I see here is that the migration will have different type
>> of
>> > > challenges which should be handled isolated. Trying to solve them all
>> at
>> > > once will make it very lengthy and also hard to review. Considering
>> Carin
>> > > and her team this is doing this on a voluntary base, I'd like to keep
>> the
>> > > number of hoops to jump through per stage as small as possible and
>> rather
>> > > split it up into multiple efforts.
>> > >
>> > > If we would do everything at once, we'd have to involve a lot of
>> people
>> > and
>> > > it would be hard to review. We'd need at least two or three reviewers
>> > > involved in that process: You (or another committer familiar with
>> Scala
>> > to
>> > > review the Scala part), Yi Zhi (general reviewer) and me (CI
>> > integration).
>> > > It would probably require even more committers for other stuff that
>> comes
>> > > up. It would rather be better to keep the parts that have to be
>> touched
>> > as
>> > > isolated and few as possible.
>> > > For example, after the code has been approved and merged in general, I
>> > can
>> > > assist with the CI integration. This would not require oversight from
>> > other
>> > > committers, so they'd be free. After that, we'd need somebody familiar
>> > with
>> > > the release process (probably Naveen) and I'd be free after that.
>> Then we
>> > > need general improvements which would also involve other people again.
>> > > Trying to squeeze everything into a single stage is going to make it
>> very
>> > > hard in my opinion.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -Marco
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 2:56 PM Naveen Swamy <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I disagree with your approach, We should bring features iteratively
>> > well
>> > > > tested and well documented. MXNet already has many different
>> language
>> > > > bindings which has quite a bit of tech-debt, I don't want just to
>> add
>> > > more
>> > > > tech-debt to the code base with new language bindings as well.
>> > > >
>> > > > On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 11:17 PM, Marco de Abreu <
>> > > > [email protected]> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > I think we should try to separate this migration into multiple
>> > stages:
>> > > > > 1. Move into contrib
>> > > > > 2. Migrate release pipeline
>> > > > > 3. Migrate tests
>> > > > > 4. Improvements
>> > > > > 5. Mark as stable and announce Julia officially
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I know how much effort Carin and the other maintainers are putting
>> > into
>> > > > > that project and thus I'd like to make the migration as easy as
>> > > possible.
>> > > > > If we try to cover release, test and improvements from Day 1,
>> we're
>> > > going
>> > > > > to make the entire migration a very hard and lengthy process.
>> > > Considering
>> > > > > the project already has its own CI and maintains a high code
>> quality,
>> > > I'm
>> > > > > confident that some time without CI would be fine. We should make
>> > this
>> > > > > iteratively. The first big goal would really be to have the
>> project
>> > in
>> > > > our
>> > > > > repository - everything else can be followed up later on.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -Marco
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 8:08 AM Carin Meier <[email protected]
>> >
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Oh great. Thanks, Chen for clarifying. That's correct, the
>> Clojure
>> > > uses
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > Scala generation which makes use of this :)
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 9:59 AM, Naveen Swamy <
>> [email protected]>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > No need to be disappointed, Scala generated APIs by code
>> > generation
>> > > > for
>> > > > > > > ndarray and symbol and if clojure depends on Scala it get
>> those
>> > as
>> > > > > well.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > On Jun 10, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Chen HY <[email protected]
>> >
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Yep. An example is the cpp port used following code to
>> generate
>> > > > op.h
>> > > > > > > > automatically.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/blob/master/
>> > > > > > > cpp-package/scripts/OpWrapperGenerator.py
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > It makes easier for everyone to follow up with the latest
>> APIs.
>> > > > > > > > It is disappointing if the python version supports the
>> latest
>> > API
>> > > > but
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > version of your favorite language doesn't.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > 2018-06-10 14:19 GMT+01:00 Naveen Swamy <[email protected]
>> >:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >> this is fantastic, thanks for being a champ. I am glad to
>> have
>> > > you
>> > > > > > join
>> > > > > > > us
>> > > > > > > >> :). Yes, we would love to make it work and be available for
>> > our
>> > > > > users,
>> > > > > > > you
>> > > > > > > >> can make features available iteratively. I understand you
>> > alone
>> > > > > can't
>> > > > > > > have
>> > > > > > > >> everything in one go, I am hoping more contributors will
>> join
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > effort.
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >> My guess is Chen is recommending generation of Clojure code
>> > from
>> > > > > > Scala.
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >>> On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 2:55 PM, Carin Meier <
>> > > > [email protected]
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > >>> Naveen,
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > >>> Thanks. I appreciate your help. I acknowledge there are
>> some
>> > > > > > challenges
>> > > > > > > >> in
>> > > > > > > >>> trying to bring in a new language package, but I think if
>> we
>> > > can
>> > > > > make
>> > > > > > > it
>> > > > > > > >>> work, it will be the best way for it to grow along with
>> the
>> > > MXNet
>> > > > > > > project
>> > > > > > > >>> and be a good fit with its goals and ecosystem long term.
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > >>> I added a confluence page of the general state of what is
>> > > working
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > > >> needs
>> > > > > > > >>> help.
>> > > > > > > >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/
>> > > > > > > >>> Clojure+Package+Contribution+Needs.
>> > > > > > > >>> Feel free to edit.
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > >>> Chen,
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > >>> I added the code generator use on the page as well. I
>> don't
>> > > fully
>> > > > > > > >>> understand what you are proposing, but I would like to. If
>> > you
>> > > > > could
>> > > > > > > >>> provide some more details to help me, that would be great.
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > >>> - Carin
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > >>>> On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 8:00 AM, Chen HY <
>> > > [email protected]
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>> I personally think that is the reason the clojure package
>> > > should
>> > > > > use
>> > > > > > > >> more
>> > > > > > > >>>> code generator.
>> > > > > > > >>>> It makes easier to build everything align with scala
>> > package.
>> > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>> 2018-06-10 12:45 GMT+01:00 Naveen Swamy <
>> [email protected]
>> > >:
>> > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>> I have called for contribution within my organization to
>> > help
>> > > > > with
>> > > > > > > >> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>> review, some of them have shown interest and hope to see
>> > them
>> > > > > help
>> > > > > > > >> with
>> > > > > > > >>>> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>> review. Carin, I learnt you are popular to have given
>> great
>> > > > talks
>> > > > > > on
>> > > > > > > >>>>> Clojure.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>> Could I please ask you document what functionality is
>> > working
>> > > > and
>> > > > > > > >> what
>> > > > > > > >>>>> parts of it need contribution.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>> In general I want to request a few things:
>> > > > > > > >>>>> Good API documentation,
>> > > > > > > >>>>> Examples, turn examples into integration tests.
>> > > > > > > >>>>> Tests, more tests
>> > > > > > > >>>>> Everything testable on CI.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>> In the long term, We have to think how to maintain API
>> > > > > > compatibility
>> > > > > > > >>> and
>> > > > > > > >>>>> tests across language bindings.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>> Thanks, Naveen
>> > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 2:38 AM, YiZhi Liu <
>> > > [email protected]
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > > >> wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Carin,
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Thank you for the great work. I'll do the review. As I
>> > have
>> > > no
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> expertise in Clojure, it will really help to have
>> people
>> > > from
>> > > > > > > >> Clojure
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> community reviewing it as well :)
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> 2018-06-08 14:22 GMT-07:00 Carin Meier <
>> > > [email protected]
>> > > > >:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> A couple of questions came up in regard to the PR and
>> the
>> > > > > current
>> > > > > > > >>>> test
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> suite state as well as the best way to review the PR
>> > since
>> > > it
>> > > > > is
>> > > > > > > >> a
>> > > > > > > >>>> new
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> language binding.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> In regards to the Clojure test suite, most of the
>> Scala
>> > > test
>> > > > > > > >> suite
>> > > > > > > >>>> has
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> been
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> ported over with the goal of having comparable
>> coverage.
>> > I
>> > > > can
>> > > > > go
>> > > > > > > >>>>> ahead a
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> put in a coverage tool to make that it a bit more
>> > > > transparent.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> For reviewing, I have a couple people in the Clojure
>> > > > community
>> > > > > > > >> that
>> > > > > > > >>>> are
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> interested in collaborating in this project and I can
>> ask
>> > > > them
>> > > > > > > >> for
>> > > > > > > >>>> help
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> in
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> reviewing the PR in some way if that is helpful too.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> I'm also open to other suggestions.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Thanks,
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Carin
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 4:06 PM, Carin Meier <
>> > > > > > > >> [email protected]>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Here is the PR https://github.com/apache/
>> > > > > > > >>> incubator-mxnet/pull/11205
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> I've ported in the content from the external github
>> > repo (
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://github.com/gigasquid/clojure-mxnet), that
>> has
>> > > been
>> > > > > > > >> tested
>> > > > > > > >>>> by
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> some
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> of the Clojure community, into the contrib directory.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> There is still lots more to do in relation to adding
>> > > tests,
>> > > > > > > >>>>> benchmarks,
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> and increasing stability, but I thought this might
>> be a
>> > > good
>> > > > > > > >> point
>> > > > > > > >>>> to
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> bring
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> it in initially so that the other work can be
>> reviewed
>> > in
>> > > > > > > >> smaller
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> chunks.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> I also would like to get other people involved in
>> making
>> > > it
>> > > > > > > >>> better,
>> > > > > > > >>>>> so I
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> thought that having the base package in there would
>> be a
>> > > > good
>> > > > > > > >>>> starting
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> point for collaboration.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Feedback welcome.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> - Carin
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 11:40 AM, Carin Meier <
>> > > > > > > >>> [email protected]>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone. I'll work on getting together a PR
>> > with
>> > > > your
>> > > > > > > >>>>> feedback
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> and post it here.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 4:05 AM, Chen HY <
>> > > > > [email protected]
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>> wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> I would suggest using code generators in case
>> upstream
>> > > > > library
>> > > > > > > >>>>> adding
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> functions for arrays.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> It seems that cpp binding is using a code generator
>> > and
>> > > > > works
>> > > > > > > >>>> fine.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 2018-06-05 7:59 GMT+01:00 Naveen Swamy <
>> > > > [email protected]
>> > > > > >:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ~/mxnet/contrib/clojure-package good place for
>> the
>> > > code.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the package name org.apache.mxnet.contrib.clojure
>> ?
>> > do
>> > > > you
>> > > > > > > >>> need
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> mxnet
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> again?
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I forgot to request to run some benchmarks and
>> > > document.
>> > > > > One
>> > > > > > > >>> of
>> > > > > > > >>>>> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> reasons
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> users use MXNet is because of its performance and
>> we
>> > > want
>> > > > > to
>> > > > > > > >>>>> ensure
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> that we
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> maintain it across language bindings.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Also invite your other clojure programmer buddies
>> to
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > >> party
>> > > > > > > >>>> :)
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Naveen
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Carin Meier <
>> > > > > > > >>>> [email protected]
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Oh right. That's not a problem, I wonder if
>> > something
>> > > > like
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.mxnet.contrib/clojure-mxnet
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> would work?
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> If this seems like it is the right direction, we
>> > could
>> > > > > > > >> work
>> > > > > > > >>>> out
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> details
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> in a PR.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Naveen Swamy <
>> > > > > > > >>>>> [email protected]>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with your assessment that we shouldn't
>> need
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > >>> user
>> > > > > > > >>>>> to
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> change
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> their code. I am not sure if we can release
>> under
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.clojure-mxnet
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> we might have to stick with our primary group id
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> org.apache.mxnet
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> and
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> may
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> be create a sub-package under it? any creative
>> > ideas?
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 1:29 PM, Carin Meier <
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> [email protected]>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback everyone.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree on the contrib option. I think it's a
>> > great
>> > > > > > > >> path
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> forward
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> and
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow it time for feedback, contribution by
>> > others,
>> > > > > > > >> and
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> stabilization.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I'm understanding correctly, that would mean
>> > > > > > > >> putting
>> > > > > > > >>>> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> source
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> code
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> in:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~/mxnet/contrib/clojure-package
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and having the artifact jar named
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> `org.apache.contrib.clojure-mx
>> net/clojure-mxnet`
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would recommend not having the individual
>> > > namespaces
>> > > > > > > >>> of
>> > > > > > > >>>>> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> files
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> have
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> contrib embedded in them, so that if it
>> graduates,
>> > > > > > > >> users
>> > > > > > > >>>>> won't
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> have
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> change their code, only the dependency.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please let me know if this is correct or if
>> there
>> > > are
>> > > > > > > >>> any
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> other
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ideas.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Carin
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 4:03 PM, Naveen Swamy <
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> [email protected]
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that's a great idea to bring in under
>> > > > > > > >> contrib
>> > > > > > > >>>> and
>> > > > > > > >>>>> we
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> can
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> also
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> user feedback
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 4, 2018, at 12:44 PM, sandeep
>> > > > > > > >> krishnamurthy <
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Carin,
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a commendable work. Thanks a lot for
>> all
>> > > > > > > >> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>> hard
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> and
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> smart
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have put behind this :-) I think this
>> will
>> > be
>> > > > > > > >> a
>> > > > > > > >>>>> great
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> value
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> addition.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If people are not sure about usage, can I
>> > suggest
>> > > > > > > >>> this
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> awesome
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> work
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought in "contrib" package? Invite and
>> build
>> > the
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> community
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> around
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clojure, stabilize and increase the coverage,
>> > and
>> > > > > > > >>>> based
>> > > > > > > >>>>> on
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> usage
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development, graduate it to main stable
>> support
>> > > > > > > >> from
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> contrib.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions and thoughts?
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sandeep
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Ivan
>> Serdyuk <
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A small comment, about Scala API: main
>> > commiters
>> > > > > > > >>> are
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> hardly
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> available,
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for today.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for Clojure - I might suggest that it
>> might
>> > be
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> possible
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> to
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> enlight
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future work, for that package, for Clojure
>> > > > > > > >>>> developers.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:50 PM, Naveen
>> Swamy <
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Carin,
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is great effort and very nicely
>> > documented.
>> > > > > > > >>>> When
>> > > > > > > >>>>> I
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> surveyed
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> at
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> day
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job on the interest for Scala packages
>> there
>> > > > > > > >> were
>> > > > > > > >>> a
>> > > > > > > >>>>> few
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> people
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> who
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specifically were interested in the Clojure
>> > > > > > > >>>> packages,
>> > > > > > > >>>>> I
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> think
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> those
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people who might have tried and understand
>> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> complexity
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> of
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> making
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scala
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work in Clojure.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am in support of a MXNet-Clojure
>> package, I
>> > > > > > > >>>> request
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> you
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> to
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> add
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unit
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tests and integration tests that can be
>> ported
>> > > > > > > >> to
>> > > > > > > >>>> CI.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your efforts.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Naveen
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Carin
>> Meier <
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is always a good thing to consider the
>> > cost
>> > > > > > > >>> with
>> > > > > > > >>>>> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> benefit.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best to explain what I see the tradeoffs
>> to
>> > be.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, I wanted to clarify that it took
>> > > > > > > >>> significant
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> development
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the Clojure package and the interop
>> > working
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> properly
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> despite
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking design on the confluence page :)
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of the advantages of MXNet over its
>> > > > > > > >>> competitors
>> > > > > > > >>>>> is
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> its
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> many
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support. The Clojure package would only
>> > > > > > > >> increase
>> > > > > > > >>>> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> value of
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> this
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proposition and bring new users and growth
>> > into
>> > > > > > > >>> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> community.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, there is a cost associated with
>> > adding
>> > > > > > > >>>> this
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> language
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> support
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you pointed out.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the Clojure package right now is
>> only
>> > > > > > > >>> reliant
>> > > > > > > >>>>> on
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Scala
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> jars
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maven, it can exist outside the main
>> project
>> > as
>> > > > > > > >>> an
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> independent
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> repo
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think that would lessen the growth benefit
>> > both
>> > > > > > > >>> to
>> > > > > > > >>>>> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Clojure
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and to the MXNet community to not be
>> included
>> > > > > > > >> as
>> > > > > > > >>> a
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> first
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> class
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe having first class Clojure
>> support
>> > in
>> > > > > > > >>>> MXNet
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> is
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> valuable,
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cost of that support is up to the
>> community
>> > to
>> > > > > > > >>>>> decide.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a process for considering a new
>> > > > > > > >> package
>> > > > > > > >>> in
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> MXNet?
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Carin
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 5:51 PM, Chen HY <
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have checked the issue and the confluence
>> > > > > > > >> page,
>> > > > > > > >>>> but
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> still
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> curious.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clojure and Scala are both JVM based
>> > > > > > > >> languages.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They, as well as many JVM based
>> languages,
>> > can
>> > > > > > > >>>> share
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> their
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> class
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> method
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at a certain level.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why should the community maintain two
>> APIs
>> > for
>> > > > > > > >>> two
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> languages
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> with
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> share
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their packages with almost zero effort?
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018-06-01 21:58 GMT+01:00 Carin Meier <
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> :
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been working on a Clojure package
>> for
>> > > > > > > >>> MXNet.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Since
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Clojure
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JVM
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language, the package leverages the
>> great
>> > > > > > > >> work
>> > > > > > > >>> of
>> > > > > > > >>>>> the
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> existing
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scala
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> package.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would appreciate any feedback and
>> > testing.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is the original issue:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> incubator-mxnet/issues/8971
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Architecture & Design:
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/
>> > > > > > > >>>> confluence/display/MXNET/
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> MXNet+Clojure
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the github repo for rapid testing
>> and
>> > > > > > > >> issue
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> fixing
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> before
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> of
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opening
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> official PR
>> https://github.com/gigasquid/
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> clojure-mxnet
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm also active in the slack channel so
>> > feel
>> > > > > > > >>> free
>> > > > > > > >>>>> to
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ping me
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carin Meier
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chen Hanyang 陈涵洋
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Software School Fudan University
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +86-138-1881-7745
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sandeep Krishnamurthy
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Chen Hanyang 陈涵洋
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Software School Fudan University
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> +86-138-1881-7745
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> --
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Yizhi Liu
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> DMLC member
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Amazon Web Services
>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Vancouver, Canada
>> > > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>> --
>> > > > > > > >>>> Chen Hanyang 陈涵洋
>> > > > > > > >>>> Software School Fudan University
>> > > > > > > >>>> +86-138-1881-7745
>> > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > --
>> > > > > > > > Chen Hanyang 陈涵洋
>> > > > > > > > Software School Fudan University
>> > > > > > > > +86-138-1881-7745
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>

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