Blake, What is the complexity of moving this functionality to CODI as a Trinidad extensions on the CODI land?
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Blake Sullivan <[email protected]>wrote: > Hazem, > > I'm still not sure what part you think Trinidad and CODI are duplicating? > Trinidad defines a WindowManager and Window objects and contracts for their > behavior. A WindowManager implementation may have interesting code for > identifying windows and defining the lifecycle. CODI has simpler code for > identifying windows. If that is the overlap you are talking about, then the > explanation is that Trinidad WindowManagers are allowed to modify the page > content in a much more intrusive manner than CODI. > > If the overlap is that Trinidad customers can have a scope that is > associated with a Window without using CODI, then that's true, but that's > been true for a long time. The only difference is that before our customers > were doing this themselves using the functionality of the WindowManager. > All this api does is makes everything dead simple. > > -- Blake Sullivan > > On Jul 21, 2010, at 12:27 PM, Hazem Saleh wrote: > > IMHO, Having a duplicate functionality implemented in both CODI and > Trinidad is *not* a motivating thing for the users to upgrade the current > working Trinidad version BUT it will be a painful thing to maintain on both > projects. And for myself as an Apache MyFaces user, It is nice to see > projects complementary to each others. > > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Hazem Saleh <[email protected]> wrote: > >> -1 for having a duplicate functionality. >> +1 for using CODI for the @WidnowScoped. >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Gerhard Petracek < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> hi blake, >>> >>> @trinidad window map & cdi: >>> we are just interested in some special events like a page-refresh >>> (triggered by the user). >>> everything else is handled internally. -> (currently) i don't see a >>> reason for using such an external map. >>> >>> @stand-alone trinidad window map: >>> do you mean there are some internal project guidelines like: >>> the project has to use plain trinidad. >>> ? >>> >>> @page flow scope: >>> that's a similar story - besides @WindowScoped codi provides >>> @ConversationScoped (similar to the conversations of orchestra) as well as >>> @ViewAccessScoped (similar to the access scope of orchestra). >>> >>> regards, >>> gerhard >>> >>> http://www.irian.at >>> >>> Your JSF powerhouse - >>> JSF Consulting, Development and >>> Courses in English and German >>> >>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >>> >>> >>> 2010/7/21 Blake Sullivan <[email protected]> >>> >>>> >>>> On Jul 21, 2010, at 5:02 AM, Gerhard Petracek wrote: >>>> >>>> hi mark, >>>> >>>> nobody said that it would harm (at least i'm not aware of technical >>>> issues). >>>> (maybe some people would use it even though they shouldn't - e.g. >>>> because they have an alternative which should be used in their >>>> application/s.) >>>> furthermore, i agree with martin - most projects are using (or will use) >>>> one of the mentioned frameworks. >>>> >>>> the questions are: >>>> who would use this feature? >>>> >>>> Anyone who needed to store information on a per window basis and could >>>> live without managed bean support. We already had several teams trying to >>>> build this on their own. The finer-grained scopes, such as page flow >>>> scope, >>>> should be built on top of this directly. As teams have been dealing with >>>> fail-over issues, they are finding that they want this. >>>> >>>> - new projects? i don't think so. >>>> >>>> If they had the above issues, sure. >>>> >>>> - existing projects? would they upgrade to a new version of trinidad >>>> just for using this feature? >>>> >>>> I don't understand. If the bar for new features is that they must be >>>> the driving force for customers to upgrade, very few features would be >>>> added >>>> to any project. >>>> >>>> -- Blake Sullivan >>>> >>>> >>>> maybe it's the right time to discuss our plans for the future of >>>> trinidad. (at least if we should use the maven shade plugin for >>>> modularizing >>>> trinidad. in such a case we could also provide an all-in-one package via >>>> special modules. so users won't see any difference, if they prefer the >>>> existing monolithic package.) >>>> >>>> regards, >>>> gerhard >>>> >>>> http://www.irian.at >>>> >>>> Your JSF powerhouse - >>>> JSF Consulting, Development and >>>> Courses in English and German >>>> >>>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >>>> >>>> >>>> 2010/7/21 Mark Struberg <[email protected]> >>>> >>>>> Hmm difficult topic. >>>>> >>>>> Please allow me a few questions: >>>>> >>>>> a.) Trinidad components would still work with using either Orchestra >>>>> conversations or CODI? >>>>> b) You are not relying on other components or the users using your >>>>> conversation >>>>> stuff if they don't like? >>>>> c) if the user doesn't make use of this feature, it will not pollute >>>>> the >>>>> viewRoot or cause heavy performance hits? >>>>> >>>>> If all this is ok, then there is imo no argument against adding it to >>>>> Trinidad. >>>>> This doesn't mean I like it either, but it doesn't hurt at least ;) >>>>> >>>>> LieGrue, >>>>> strub >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> >From: Gerhard Petracek <[email protected]> >>>>> >To: MyFaces Development <[email protected]> >>>>> >Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 10:16:23 AM >>>>> >Subject: Re: [Trinidad][api]TRINIDAD-1857 Add a Map associated with >>>>> each window >>>>> > >>>>> >or tab that the user is interacting with >>>>> > >>>>> >i agree with martin. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >regards, >>>>> >gerhard >>>>> > >>>>> >http://www.irian.at >>>>> > >>>>> >Your JSF powerhouse - >>>>> >JSF Consulting, Development and >>>>> >Courses in English and German >>>>> > >>>>> >Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >2010/7/21 Martin Marinschek <[email protected]> >>>>> > >>>>> >Hi Matthias, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> Not everybody is using CDI and/or Spring. >>>>> >> >>>>> >>well, in the real world and a little while in the future, there is >>>>> not >>>>> >>many people who will not have one of these frameworks in their >>>>> >>applications. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> I think, on long term we may want one clean and independent API, >>>>> where >>>>> >>> all these projects offer an implementation for a window/event >>>>> system: >>>>> >>> -CODI >>>>> >>> -Orchestra >>>>> >>> -Trinidad >>>>> >>> -etc >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> However, right now, Trinidad has the base already and adding a new >>>>> >>> toolset to the belt feels kinda wrong. >>>>> >>> Again +1 on this to be inside of Trinidad. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> This does not mean that we could work on a better future version of >>>>> a >>>>> >>> more unified API, for this. Right? >>>>> >> >>>>> >>yes, this is what we could and what we should. Why not take this >>>>> >>addition as a reason to do this right now? If we don´t take such >>>>> >>additions as a reason to do this, what else will be our reason? >>>>> >> >>>>> >>best regards, >>>>> >> >>>>> >>Martin >>>>> >> >>>>> >>-- >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>http://www.irian.at >>>>> >> >>>>> >>Your JSF powerhouse - >>>>> >>JSF Consulting, Development and >>>>> >>Courses in English and German >>>>> >> >>>>> >>Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Hazem Ahmed Saleh Ahmed >> >> Author of (The Definitive Guide to Apache MyFaces and Facelets): >> >> http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Guide-Apache-MyFaces-Facelets/dp/1590597370 >> http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B002M052KY >> >> Web blog: http://hazems.blogetery.com/ >> >> [Web 2.0] Mashups Integration with JSF: >> http://code.google.com/p/mashups4jsf/ >> > > > > -- > Hazem Ahmed Saleh Ahmed > > Author of (The Definitive Guide to Apache MyFaces and Facelets): > > http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Guide-Apache-MyFaces-Facelets/dp/1590597370 > http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B002M052KY > > Web blog: http://hazems.blogetery.com/ > > [Web 2.0] Mashups Integration with JSF: > http://code.google.com/p/mashups4jsf/ > > > -- Hazem Ahmed Saleh Ahmed Author of (The Definitive Guide to Apache MyFaces and Facelets): http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Guide-Apache-MyFaces-Facelets/dp/1590597370 http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B002M052KY Web blog: http://hazems.blogetery.com/ [Web 2.0] Mashups Integration with JSF: http://code.google.com/p/mashups4jsf/
