That should be in the documentation and also further to my thoughts about the NuttX website, this should be distilled to the essence and mentioned right on the landing page, so people won't have to search through a lot of unfamiliar documentation to find it.
Cheers Nathan On Tue, Jul 9, 2024 at 12:47 PM Alin Jerpelea <jerpe...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > in my opinion nsh provides a good familiar feeling for people coming from > Linux and may be missleading for many developers that come from bare > metal. > I think that we should improve the documentation and list all available > options with benefits and drawbacks for each option. > > Best regards > Alin > > On Tue, 9 Jul 2024, 19:36 Saurav Pal, <resyfer....@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I agree on a lot of things with Michal (while I can't comment on other > > things), being almost a beginner to the project (and embedded systems in > > general) I think my viewpoint can help. Because of the coverage of nsh > > across videos and documentation, I never knew for sure if nsh was a > > requirement or not. I thought there must be a way, given it "looks like > > Linux '', back when I got started but was never sure. > > > > I feel it would be really helpful to just have a blinking LED program > > configuration for every board, that runs immediately after flashing as an > > "example" that people can flash using some commands that they can copy > > paste into the terminal. It would be better if it's like flashing quickly > > or in a pattern, etc. to distinguish it from the usual blink LED programs > > that boards have from manufacture. > > > > This way, along with a list of supported boards, can help people know if > > their board is even supported or not. Sure, a grep from all configs would > > tell that as well, but the less effort to get started, the better people > > feel about adopting it. A lot of the times people don't want to abandon a > > project that they can get up and running, mostly due to sunken costs > > > > As a beginner to the project myself, I think it would help if I share my > > troubles during getting started with NuttX. > > > > ===== My Yapping Starts ===== > > - The support for just Ubuntu (my Fedora had, as usual, dependency > version > > conflict problems) was a bit off putting, but given most use Ubuntu, > that's > > probably a very personal problem. > > - The directory structure....it needed a precise naming...which was > weird. > > I gave my own names and path during the first try and got errors. I > didn't > > bother to follow the clone part too diligently because "it's just > probably > > example code". > > - As Nathan mentions...I didn't know if my board was supported or not. I > > had to navigate around the help command of the configure tool and find > the > > list of boards (I hadn't checked the directory structure yet, I was still > > setting it up). > > - As back then my main target was to build and run nuttx, I wanted to > check > > it working in my laptop, so I had to search the docs for the simulator. > > ===== My Yapping Ends ===== > > > > BR, > > Saurav. > > > > On Tue, Jul 9, 2024 at 9:33 PM Nathan Hartman <hartman.nat...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Replies inline below: > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 9, 2024 at 11:06 AM <michal.lyszc...@bofc.pl> wrote: > > > > > > > On 2024-07-09 09:49:16, Alan C. Assis wrote: > > > > > > > > > (snip) > > > > > > > Suggestions about how to proceed to archive it are welcome. > > > > > Probably we will need collective help to archive it for all boards. > > > > > > > > Other problem I've seen is bad (or rather lack thereof) press. Each > > time > > > > I propose nuttx for some project it's a lot of hesitance and > ultimately > > > > decision to go with zephyr becuase it "supports more things". Which > is > > > > a lie, because with my experience zephyr has a lot of demos just to > > show > > > > off "how many things they support". But it's all demo and nor > > production > > > > quality. Nevertheless - this sells. And later when it's clear that > > zephyr > > > > was lying - it's too late to go with anything else because months of > > work > > > > was already put into zephyr, so noone will start over. > > > > > > > > > > > > It might be worthwhile to think about how we can improve our website. > > > Currently our landing page doesn't say much. > > > > > > Specific suggestions for improvement: > > > > > > * Point out real world applications where NuttX has been used -- like > > NuttX > > > in space, NuttX in products people are familiar with. > > > > > > * Link to videos from NuttX workshops. > > > > > > * Mention how many boards and architectures we support (there used to > be > > a > > > list on the pre-Apache MediaWiki-based site) > > > > > > More below: > > > > > > So nuttx definiately lacks press and exposure. Basically noone I worked > > > with > > > > heard about nuttx until I mentioned that. A lot of programmers are > > hyped > > > > when I explain what and how it does things - but it all ends up with > > > zephyr > > > > because of "all the supported hardware it has". > > > > > > > > For ppl to consider nuttx, they first need to hear about it. People > > > > (especially > > > > useless managers) will need benchmarks - like how much flash/ram it > > uses. > > > > How it performs. Will their hardware be supported. > > > > > > > > It would not hurt for things to be more user friendly. I admit, > > > > initializing > > > > zephyr is easy. Unpack SDK, west init, compile, flash and you are > done. > > > > And nuttx? Download and put compiler in path. Clone nuttx AND apps in > > > same > > > > directory. Configure. Compile. Learn your debugger to flash. On > zephyr > > > you > > > > do 'west flash' and it knowns which discovery board is used and it > uses > > > > apropriate tool and arguments. This is good, I will admit it. > > > > > > > > So nuttx would need some SDK in my opinion. Package with binary > > compilers > > > > and > > > > flash utilities. "make flash" should just perform flash on specific > > board > > > > without user knowing what tools is needed. "make debug" should start > > GDB > > > > session. > > > > > > > > A lot of beginners will be put off becuase of things like that. If > they > > > > could > > > > just do "./install-sdk.sh && ./init-nuttx && cd nuttx && > > > > ./tools/configure.sh nucleo-whatever && make && make flash" and start > > > > playing > > > > around - this would definiately help getting beginners. > > > > > > > > Anegdotal (but still) proof. 10 years ago I was researching RTOSes. I > > > > really > > > > wanted to use nuttx on stm32 back then. But I had a lot of problems > > just > > > > compiling and running anything on discovery board. I was kinda put > off, > > > > team > > > > leader decided to screw it and go with another solution. I finally > > learnt > > > > it > > > > at home and love it ever since, but damage was already done and nuttx > > in > > > > that > > > > project was forgotten. > > > > > > > > > A script or even a TUI or GUI to easily fetch and install NuttX and > > various > > > tools could be a good answer to this need. Maybe a menu where you can > > > answer a few questions (do you want latest release or git clone, etc). > > But > > > there's a risk: if this program doesn't actually work correctly, that > > will > > > be much worse than not having it!! > > > > > > Sorry for long post, here's a potato: 🥔 > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for long post and potato :-) > > > > > > Cheers > > > Nathan > > > > > >
