Wow, thanks for the detailed explanation!

This whole exercise sounds like "breaking up coarse-grained methods into fine-grained decoupled flexible ones".

Then it should be nothing more than breaking up a giant simple method into independent pieces that can be reused in many places. Why go through the trouble of creating a new mechanism for "sectioned methods"? (In Java terms, it's like a simple method is a "class", and the sections are like "methods".)

Suppose we have a huge method that has 3 sections that seem independent. We break it up into 3 separate methods. That's a refactor. We maintain the 3 separate methods in OFBiz. The 3 new methods can be reused in hundreds of places in OFBiz. Well, if they are reused in only a few places in OFBiz, then we had just done a refactor with bad ROI.

Ok, so what if our custom project can reuse the 3 methods in 100s of places, but OFBiz project won't? Then we should do our own custom refactor, and break the giant method up into 3 methods. No point doing the refactor in OFBiz where there's bad ROI.

As for overhead caused by "tiny little simple methods each requiring to be wrapped in a service", that'll come back to the problem of Minilang methods not being able to call other Minilang methods in the normal way that common programming languages do. If we come to this problem, we may talk about this more.

Jonathon

Chris Howe wrote:
Let me see if I can take an easy example.
ofbiz simple-method: 
org/ofbiz/party/party/PartyServices#followPartyRelationshipsInline

    <simple-method method-name="followPartyRelationshipsInline" 
short-description="followPartyRelationshipsInline">
        <!--snip comment    -->
        <if-empty field-name="nowTimestamp"><now-timestamp-to-env 
env-name="nowTimestamp"/></if-empty>
        <!-- only create these if they don't already exist, more efficient and 
avoids potential problems in recursed calls -->
        <if-empty field-name="_inline_roleTypeIdFromList">
            <field-to-list field-name="roleTypeIdFrom" 
list-name="_inline_roleTypeIdFromList"/>
            <if-compare field-name="roleTypeIdFromInclueAllChildTypes" operator="equals" 
value="Y">
                <set value="_inline_roleTypeIdFromList" 
field="roleTypeIdListName"/>
                <call-simple-method method-name="getChildRoleTypesInline"/>
            </if-compare>
        </if-empty>
        <if-empty field-name="_inline_roleTypeIdToList">
            <field-to-list field-name="roleTypeIdTo" 
list-name="_inline_roleTypeIdToList"/>
            <if-compare field-name="roleTypeIdToInclueAllChildTypes" operator="equals" 
value="Y">
                <set value="_inline_roleTypeIdToList" 
field="roleTypeIdListName"/>
                <call-simple-method method-name="getChildRoleTypesInline"/>
            </if-compare>
        </if-empty>

        <call-simple-method 
method-name="followPartyRelationshipsInlineRecurse"/>
    </simple-method>

after markup:

    <simple-method method-name="followPartyRelationshipsInline" 
short-description="followPartyRelationshipsInline">

        <!--snip comment    -->
        <section-begin>
            <section name="sectionA"/>
         </section-begin>

        <if-empty field-name="nowTimestamp"><now-timestamp-to-env 
env-name="nowTimestamp"/></if-empty>

        <!-- only create these if they don't already exist, more
efficient and avoids potential problems in recursed calls -->

        <if-empty field-name="_inline_roleTypeIdFromList">

            <field-to-list field-name="roleTypeIdFrom" 
list-name="_inline_roleTypeIdFromList"/>

            <if-compare field-name="roleTypeIdFromInclueAllChildTypes" operator="equals" 
value="Y">

                <set value="_inline_roleTypeIdFromList" 
field="roleTypeIdListName"/>

                <call-simple-method method-name="getChildRoleTypesInline"/>

            </if-compare>

        </if-empty>

        <if-empty field-name="_inline_roleTypeIdToList">

            <field-to-list field-name="roleTypeIdTo" 
list-name="_inline_roleTypeIdToList"/>

            <if-compare field-name="roleTypeIdToInclueAllChildTypes" operator="equals" 
value="Y">

                <set value="_inline_roleTypeIdToList" 
field="roleTypeIdListName"/>

                <call-simple-method method-name="getChildRoleTypesInline"/>

            </if-compare>

        </if-empty>

         <section-end>
           <section name="sectionA"/>
         </section-end>

        <call-simple-method 
method-name="followPartyRelationshipsInlineRecurse"/>

    </simple-method>



This simple markup would allow me to create my own simple method as such:

<simple-method method-name="myMethod">
    <call-simple-method-section method-name="followPartyRelationshipsInline" 
xml-resource="org/ofbiz/party/party/PartyServices.xml" section="sectionA">
  <set field="relPartyListSize" value=${bsh:relatedPartyIdList.size()}/>
  <if-compare operator="less" field="relPartyListSize" value="100">
<call-simple-method method-name="followPartyRelationshipsInlineRecurse"/> </if-compare>
</simple-method>

This would allow me to quickly create a method that stops the recursion if 
there are more than 100 entries in the list. (note: this may not be the exact 
correct place to put this, but I think it demonstrates the concept well enough, 
 let me know if it doesn't)

Or If I wanted to avoid recursion for party "Company"

<simple-method method-name="myMethod">

    <call-simple-method-section
method-name="followPartyRelationshipsInline"
xml-resource="org/ofbiz/party/party/PartyServices.xml"
section="sectionA">
  <if-compare operator="not-equals" field="partyIdTo" value="Company">

<call-simple-method method-name="followPartyRelationshipsInlineRecurse"/>
  </if-compare>

</simple-method>


I certainly hear you when you say that the ofbiz simple-method "may not be maintained the way you like". However, I think anyone reusing any logic from the project is already taking and accepting that risk. In addition, the reason I've been demonstrating the <section-begin><section name="sectionA"></section-begin> is that you could just as easily have: <section-begin><section name="sectionA"><section name="sectionB"></section-begin> and have the section-end for each at different places. This would mitigate much of the risk as well.

As far as there being more to maintain, the additional lines to the ofbiz 
project method would not be added to the method operations, they would be in 
effect no different than a comment to ofbiz operations.

I hope this clarifies the intent.  Thanks!


----- Original Message ----
From: David E Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 3:29:23 PM
Subject: Re: [RFC] simple method subsections


I'm still not totally sure what you're trying to accomplish, or maybe more accurately, what you want to make easier.

Could you throw out some ofbiz-oriented pseudo code for the way you would do this now that you don't like?

I don't think I really like this section approach in the simple- methods. It adds a lot of otherwise meaningless stuff to the routines, and you'd still have to instrument a LOT of code in order to really be able to use it without modifying the original code, and any code that was instrumented this way would result in more lines of code to maintain, and they may not be maintained the way you like, especially if the purpose or intent isn't clear.

Based on more info about what you're trying to do I'm guessing we can find a better alternative that is more "automatic" and not so intrusive in existing code.

-David


On Nov 16, 2007, at 10:47 AM, Chris Howe wrote:

I gave several ideas, the parameterized one is probably the least plausible because of security considerations. I'm leaning towards the <section-begin/section-end> tagging that would be otherwise inert to an ofbiz application.

example:
MySimpleMehtods.xml
<simple-method method-name="myMehtod>
...some logic...
<get-simple-method-section method-name="ofbizMethod" location="org/ ofbiz/ofbizApp/OfbizServices.xml" section="sectionA">
...some more logic...
</simple-method>

OfbizServices.xml
<simple-method method-name="ofbizMethod">
...some ofbiz logic that I don't want to run in myMethod...
<section-begin>
 <section name="sectionA">
</section-begin>
...some ofbiz logic that I want to run in myMethod...
<section-end>
 <section name="sectionA">
</section-end>
...some more ofbiz logic that I don't want to run in myMethod...
</simple-method>

This would be similar to how <call-simple-method> works except you would be pulling a node that is a child of <simple-method> instead of a child node of <simple-methods>. And instead of pulling a node,
you're pulling all elements between a section-begin and a section- end tag (this would allow for overlapping sections as well as being able to keep an iteration open).

I'd really appreciate more comments, especially from the framework committers as this only has value if project simple-methods are allowed to be salted with <section-begin/section-end> tags.

----- Original Message ----
From: Jonathon -- Improov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 10:02:09 AM
Subject: Re: simple method subsections

Are you suggesting something like abstract classes in Java, where
 some
methods are implemented and
some are not (blanks to be filled)?

Parameterized simple methods. Sounds interesting.

Some effort is needed to refactor the existing "OFBiz maintained"
simple methods to publish such
"hooks" where you can insert your own custom logics.

Because that kind of elegant refactor takes time, it is often easier
to
just hack it and get the
job done.

Unless we can identify numerous use cases for such elegant
 mechanisms,
there's little ROI in doing
such fanciful stuff.

My choices are either to bring he recursion service into my custom
application and make the minor modification or to iterate back
through the list adding the result of the service and then sorting.
I would just reuse the recursion service "as is", and go through the
list with some
after-processing. Maximize reuse, minimize maintenance cost. Project
time frame is seldom less
than cruel!

If that ever becomes a performance bottle-neck, I'll then do
 something
about it.

Jonathon

Chris Howe wrote:
Thanks for the reply.  Scope isn't my problem.  My problem is a
trade-off between code reuse and performance. Lets say I'm doing one of the
recursive party relationship services that returns a list of related
parties, but I also need to run the partyNameForDate service before
adding it to the list and I need to sort by name before displaying it on the screen. My choices are either to bring he recursion service into my
custom application and make the minor modification or to iterate back
through the list adding the result of the service and then sorting.
----- Original Message ----
From: Jonathon -- Improov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 9:38:42 PM
Subject: Re: simple method subsections


Chris,

Have a look at a thread I started at
http://www.nabble.com/forum/ViewPost.jtp?post=10803536&framed=y .
 You
also responded to that
thread too.

When you say "extend" a simple method, it might be easier to simply
think of how you would extend
a Java method. We would create a new method that first calls the old
method, and then perform some
custom actions after that (or the order could be flipped).

Your suggestion with "selective reuse of parts of a simple method"
would mean changing the
original method (by inserting <section-begin> <section-end>), to
"generic-ize" the original
method. Then you might as well not call it "extension", but
"customization" or "enhancement" or
"refactor" instead.

In that thread I pointed to, I had implemented a
<call-simple-method-scoped> which allows simple
methods to call other simple methods *exactly like how Java methods
can
call other Java methods*.
Unfortunately, the client I worked for now has exclusive rights to
that
new and convenient
artifact. :/

So what's the problem of having simple methods call other simple
methods now, you may ask? Scope
is all mixed up into a single bowl of alphabet soup, single
namespace.
For those of us who know
Java (or C or VB or just about any programming language at all), we
know this isn't conventional,
barely "right".

To offer a solution to your question, I've found that the only way
 to
call other methods in
Minilang with proper scope (stored in call stack) is to use the
Service
Engine. Yeah, it means
that for every simple method you want to call, wrap them in a
 service
and call the service instead.

Jonathon

Chris Howe wrote:
I'm looking for some feedback on an idea I'm tossing around

Problem: When creating a custom application, often times you will
 be
creating business logic that is exactly like what is in OFBiz but
needs
to be slightly modified before sending it to the entity engine for
storage or before creating a result.  (changing the way a price is
calculated, adding specialized field information, etc).
It would helpful to be able to call the OFBiz maintained method and
then extend it through a custom call.
A couple ideas on how to accomplish this
1) Add two new element groups,
<section-begin>
 <section name="sectionA"/>
</section-begin
...some logic...
<section-end>
 <section name="sectionA"/>
</section-end>
...more logic...


and salt the ofbiz method so that you can pull only the logic
between the two
2) mimic the screen-widget's decorator pattern

3) add a map of simple-methods to the method's context that allows
running extended code
extendMethod.myLocation#myMethod

and then salt the ofbiz method to call if it exist.


TIA for any thoughts

,Chris
















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