13.07 is just a release branch for now, that we are stabilizing since July 2013 
(when we branched it from trunk); no release yet was made... when we will 
release 13.07.01 that will be the first stable release.

Jacopo

On Aug 20, 2014, at 5:08 PM, Ron Wheeler <[email protected]> wrote:

> I guess that I am still a little confused about the release policy.
> 
> If 13.07 was frozen in July 2013 with all of the functionality defined, what 
> was the date that it was "released" with the database fixed and the code 
> "done" except for bug fixes (stable release?)?
> 
> I am not sure that as a system admin, I would make the jump from someone 
> putting a demo and me putting it into production.
> 
> Was there a date that the development team said that it was now "recommended" 
> for production use even though there were known bugs and a 13.07.01 release 
> was scheduled in the future.
> How can one know which 13.07 pre-release one has?
> 
> Was this made available as a 13.07.00 or as a 13.07.01-SNAPSHOT?
> 
> Ron
> 
> On 19/08/2014 4:30 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> 
>> Le 19/08/2014 18:27, Ron Wheeler a écrit :
>>> On 19/08/2014 10:59 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> Inline...
>>>> 
>>>> Adrian Crum
>>>> Sandglass Software
>>>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>>> 
>>>> On 8/19/2014 3:45 PM, Ron Wheeler wrote:
>>>>> Java 6 is already 8 years old. Java 7 is 3 years old. Java 8 is pretty
>>>>> new but worth considering if it is not a significant different from the
>>>>> upgrade to Java 7.
>>>>> 
>>>>> How much work was involved in the switch from 6 to 7.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Unit tests fail in Java 7. They had to be modified.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The difference between versions of Log4j would not seem to be a big
>>>>> advantage or a big problem. I did this on one of our projects and it was
>>>>> pretty painless. I also switched from properties to xml and that was a 1
>>>>> hour project for my simple system.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From a marketing/project adoption point of view, a product based on an
>>>>> 8 year old version of Java is a lot less attractive that one running on
>>>>> the latest version.
>>>>> It shows that the project team is on top of current technology and that
>>>>> the project is active.
>>>>> I don't think that people would care much about the version of log4j
>>>>> when deciding whether to consider OfBiz.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> True, that shouldn't affect those considering OFBiz. But sys admins 
>>>> configure tools to analyze OFBiz logs, and the new format could break 
>>>> those tools.
>>>> Keep in mind there may be hundreds of production deployments running on 
>>>> the R13 branch.
>>>> 
>>> I thought that we are talking about the .01 release of 13.07.
>>> Putting milestones or development trunks into production does entail some 
>>> risk.
>>> I am surprised that there are that many different system integrators or 
>>> end-users that would put a development branch into production.
>>> End-users are usually bound by corporate policies about using official 
>>> releases.
>> 
>> Remember that the R13.07 branch has been freezed since , er, 13/07. So those 
>> people don't take much risks. There is always a trade between official and 
>> efficient.
>> 
>>> 
>>> I could imagine a few system integrators doing it for many clients but that 
>>> means that only a few people would actually be affected as tool providers.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Those sys admins could configure the new logger to produce logs that look 
>>>> like the old ones, but then that's extra work that they believe they 
>>>> shouldn't have to do on a "stable" release, and so forth and so on...
>>> I was not aware that 13.07 had a "stable" release so far.
>> 
>> Not officially, but you maybe noticed that the stable demo runs 13.07.
>> 
>>> They knew that there where many risks and potential costs associated with 
>>> using a development trunk in production.
>> 
>> It's not a development trunk, only bug fixed are committed once a branch is 
>> freezed
>> 
>>> Perhaps a change of this nature is at the edge of the normal risks but it 
>>> is clearly within the realm of possibility.
>>> Database changes, configuration setting changes, UI changes would be harder 
>>> to deal with but are part of the risk of putting development into 
>>> production.
>> 
>> Nope, you can be reassured no new features, improvements will be normally 
>> committed to a freezed branch.
>> That's why Jacopo asked about Java 7 and log4j2. Both are not risky at all, 
>> so I think it's possible to add  them.
>> 
>>> On the good side, they already have 13.07 so they can continue to run on 
>>> their fork until they have worked out their upgrade process.
>>> 
>>> Can the configuration of the logs be documented as a cookbook or an 
>>> alternate log4j.xml to reduce the effort if it affects so many?
>> 
>> There is only that for now 
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBTECH/Apache+OFBiz+Technical+Production+Setup+Guide#ApacheOFBizTechnicalProductionSetupGuide-DebugSettings
>> But I guess it's enough for most of us
>> 
>>> 
>>> One would hope that the sysadmin tools are pretty flexible and not tied to 
>>> a specific logger or worse a specific log format.
>> 
>> I hope so
>> 
>> Jacques
>> 
>>> 
>>> Ron
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have not tried Java 8 so I can not comment on where problems can come
>>>>> from.
>>>>> Our move from 6 to 7 was pretty transparent but we did not have any code
>>>>> developed with earlier versions of Java and did not try to retrofit new
>>>>> Java 7 capabilities into existing code.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> There is no Java 7 specific code in the trunk. The recent changes were 
>>>> merely fixing compatibility issues with Java 6.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> You have already done this so you know the extent of the effort required.
>>>>> I don't have to do the work so.....
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ron
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 19/08/2014 10:16 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>> I don't have an opinion on this.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The "rule" has been to keep backports restricted to bug fixes only,
>>>>>> but we have a history of backporting various refactorings to make
>>>>>> branch maintenance easier.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From my perspective, the two things cancel each other out, and I end
>>>>>> up with no opinion.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Adrian Crum
>>>>>> Sandglass Software
>>>>>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 8/19/2014 2:34 PM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
>>>>>>> Before I start the process of preparing the release files for the
>>>>>>> first release of the 13.07 series and call a vote on it I would like
>>>>>>> to get your feedback on a couple of topics.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Should we backport to it the recent switch to Java 7?
>>>>>>> Should we backport to it the recent update to Log4j2?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The main reason I am asking this is that once we release the first
>>>>>>> release out of 13.07, for sure we will not backport the
>>>>>>> aforementioned upgrades (because they are not bugs); however the
>>>>>>> 13.07 releases will stay with us for at least 2 years and it would be
>>>>>>> nice to do the migration to these new technologies now.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ron Wheeler
> President
> Artifact Software Inc
> email: [email protected]
> skype: ronaldmwheeler
> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
> 

Reply via email to