<merged threads> WRT trademarks, a couple of thoughts: * Trademarks are typically regional and I don't see filings for either OData or Olingo at http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4809:lege0l.1.1. * I believe Microsoft LCA would say that we've granted whatever rights we might have had to the OData "brand" to OASIS. I worked hard with LCA to turn over the rights to the OData logo to them.
I will preface my comments by saying that I am doing my best to protect the OData community, not diminish the Olingo community or brand. I have been a part of the OData community since I joined Microsoft over three years ago. I strongly believe that we all are part of a bigger community. I fully recognize that this is comparatively unique for Apache projects. Many (probably most) Apache projects are fully unique and innovative. However, I think it's an enormous loss if Olingo tries to fit that same mold - Olingo is part of something bigger and better than it will ever be on its own. OData is a protocol designed to make it easy to interchange data. The whole point of OData is to be ONE community, unified between a set of best-practice conventions for implementing RESTful APIs. Introducing alternative brands just dilutes what we currently have and in my opinion would be a great loss for the community at large. I love Apache's ability to come up with unique and catchy names but there is something more important at stake here. We should make it EASY for people to find the reference OData JavaScript and Java libraries. A new OData user should not have to figure out that - oh, hey - Olingo.JS does happen to be the reference implementation supported by members of the OData TC. The worst part about this is that it forces the OData community to context switch. What happens when they need a C++ or .NET client? Will they assume that there isn't one because Olingo.Cpp doesn't exist? I fully admit that we messed up on the first name of the JavaScript client. DataJS was a bad name too. We have internal threads dating back well over a year about how we should unify the branding of these clients. We have done this with the .NET client, we are doing it with the C++ client, we did it with the mistake-of-a client we released for iOS (not proud of that one), and we would have done it with the JavaScript client if we hadn't used it to seed this project. We don't want to put the Microsoft brand on the clients we are sponsoring, we want to put the OData brand on them. The fact that they're produced by Microsoft is interesting but incidental. We sincerely hope that you feel the same way. So to be explicitly clear, for the sake of the OData community as a whole I am humbly asking for the names OData.JS or OData Client for JavaScript or something similar, and a name that follows the same pattern for the Java client. I do think the server is more negotiable, but even there we've branded our flagship .NET server "ASP.NET Web API OData" (I know, I know... it's Microsoft) and the C++ server will also have "OData" featured prominently in the name. I don't want this to come across the wrong way, but please be part of the larger community, not a distinct community. Thanks for hearing me out, Mark -----Original Message----- From: Florian Müller [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:50 PM To: dev; Mark Stafford Subject: RE: Java Script library Name voting result Hi Mark, A vote on the name of a sub project of an Apache project has to happen on an Apache mailing list. Votes of PMC members are bindings. Votes from others are welcome, but not binding. That is not negotiable. Ideally, the discussion should also take place on an Apache mailing list to keep a record of the discussion. Input from outside is always appreciated, but the PMC members make the final decision. - Florian -----Original Message----- From: Bolz, Michael [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Java Script library Name voting result Hi together, IMHO the Odata community can also discuss about naming and give suggestions but at the end the decision has to be on the "Olingo Dev Mailinglist <[email protected]>" by the PMC Members. To the naming, I like it to have all libraries within Apache Olingo the "Olingo" part in their name which is the case for "Olingo.JS". But I can understand and agree with the argument that if someone search for "odata javascript" he would find better results if the name is "OData.JS". Beside of the points above, the trademark for "Olingo" is owned by Apache but who owns the trademark for "OData"? Could we name it "OData.JS" without getting trouble about the trademark? Kind regards, Michael On 24.07.14 12:05, "Mark Stafford" <[email protected]> wrote: >This seems reasonable and it was on my to-read list so thanks for pushing >on the issue. I think those rules probably work very well for most Apache >projects and will probably work very well for the vast majority of the >issues the Olingo community will be voting on. But we need to remember >that this is a reasonably unique project. It is part of a much larger >community. We obviously will not be blogging on odata.org about code >changes in these libraries. But for meta questions I think it absolutely >makes sense to ask the larger community. This would include things like >names, moving projects around, relative priorities of projects, etc. > >Thanks, >Mark > >-----Original Message----- >From: Klevenz, Stephan [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 4:49 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: Java Script library Name voting result > >Hi all, > >Please have a look at [1] so that we have a common understanding of the >Apache voting process. > >I don't want to stress this to much. We are having a healthy discussion >and I am pretty sure that we get a consensus. After that we can do a new >vote. > >Regards, >Stephan > >[1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html > > > > >On 24.07.14 10:29, "Mark Stafford" <[email protected]> wrote: > >>I'm not asking us to exclude [email protected], just asking to >>include a larger community. As far as I can tell there's less than 20 >>members on this mailing list and most of us work for Microsoft or SAP >>so it's not a good place to get feedback on something as visible as the >>name of the library. By contrast odata.org had 61,000 unique visitors in >>June. >>We certainly won't get responses from that many people, but I'd hope we >>can get a voting result that includes more than six votes from two >>companies. That's not a very representative sample. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Kobler-Morris, Sven [mailto:[email protected]] >>Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 4:02 PM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: Java Script library Name voting result >> >>Hello Mark, >> >>think it is best if discussion took place on [email protected], >>otherwise we have so sync the discussion between mailing >>list/blog/forum >> >>On http://olingo.apache.org/support.html is information of how to join >>[email protected]. Any interested developer can join. >> >>Regards, >>Sven >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Mark Stafford [mailto:[email protected]] >>Sent: Donnerstag, 24. Juli 2014 09:56 >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: Java Script library Name voting result >> >>Thanks Sven! Ideally we should consider getting input from the larger >>OData community. The current Olingo community is mostly composed of >>members of the TC, which I think biases the discussion somewhat. Is >>there a way to extend the call for input to the full OData community? >>Maybe we could put a blog post up on OData.org and send a mail to the >>main OData DL? >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Kobler-Morris, Sven [mailto:[email protected]] >>Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 3:30 PM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: Java Script library Name voting result >> >>Hi all, >> >>this seems to be a valid point. So I cancelled the vote and we can do >>further discussions on this. >>From my current point of view ODataJS makes also sense as a name >>because it is more releated to "OData" then "Olingo" and will show >>better up in Search results ( as Yi mentioned). >> >>So please free discuss this here. There will be a new Vote on this >>after the discussion. >> >>regards, >>Sven >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Yi Ding [mailto:[email protected]] >>Sent: Donnerstag, 24. Juli 2014 08:20 >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: Java Script library Name voting result >> >>Hi all, >> >>I would propose that we reconsider using the name OData.JS or ODataJS. >>OlingoJS certainly got majority of the votes but the number of votes is >>small (only 6 votes). >> >>This JavaScript client library for OData is the core client library for >>JavaScript mainly developed by sponsors of the TC of OASIS for OData >>(at least this first version), so it qualifies as an official >>JavaScript library of OData. Having OData.JS or ODataJS as its name >>will vastly increase the possibility that users will turn to our >>library as the first choice when he searches on the internet for "OData >>JavaScript library" >>and names like "OData.js", "Breeze.js", "JayData", etc. show up at the >>same time. Using OlingoJS will likely to cause brand dilution. Apache >>Olingo as the project name is totally respected but having OData as >>part of the library name would also be very beneficial. >> >>It would be really helpful if people voted on OlingoJS can shed light >>on your reasons for this choice so that we can discuss about it. >> >>Best, >>Yi >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Kobler-Morris, Sven [mailto:[email protected]] >>Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:02 PM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: Java Script library Name voting result >> >>Hi, >> >>for the name the majority is for "OlingoJS". >> >>So we use OlingoJS as name. >> >>Regards, >>Sven >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: V.A, Chandan [mailto:[email protected]] >>Sent: Montag, 21. Juli 2014 14:32 >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: [VOTE] Java Script library Name >> >>OlingoJS +1 >> >>Thanks, >>Kind Regards >>Chandan VA >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Kobler-Morris, Sven [mailto:[email protected]] >>Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 2:19 PM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: [VOTE] Java Script library Name >> >>Hi all, >> >>below is a list of collected names for the Java Script OData client >>library which makes sense from our point of view. For voting please ad >>a >>+1 behind your favorite choice. >> >>1. datajs >>2. OlingoJS >> >>3. ODataJS >> >>4. Olingo.OData.JS >> >> >>regards, >>Sven >
